Coach going across the field
 

I heard of this situation in a game in our area this season: Coach calls a timeout and then walks all the way across the field to talk to the opposing coach. I am sure it was not to congratulate him on a fine game. However, it was brief and not as visibly confrontational as we might expect.

Do we have a foul here?

I don't think this is a foul... it's definitely a DON'T DO THAT - and don't ever let this happen on your field.

I would have to be a really good reason not to have a foul on this play. For one he is out of the box and off the sideline and then this action could have caused other reactions. More than "Do not do that anymore" in my book.

Peace

Here it'd be a UIL report minimum I think. Hopefully we prevent it from even happening in the first place but if he goes charging past the officials attempting to corral him, I think flags are coming out.

Why didn't one of the officials stop him?

Unsportsmanlike Conduct. 9-8-3.... A nonplayer shall not be outside his team box.....

The op said that a time out was requested (and I'm assuming granted) So his being on the field wouldn't fall under this rule, but he is restricted to his teams huddle at the hash. I would think that he should have had to walk past atleast 3 officials ( R,U and line judge) to get to the other sideline. One of the 3 has to stop him and advise him to return to his sideline. Then at that point you could have some type of unsportsmanlike penality.

You walk 15 when a player steps out of the team box during a time out? Wow.

No, just when a coach walks 55 to engage another coach in an argument.

Inventing rules is fun.

I'm pretty sure that on most of our fields, we, or some other official on our crews, would have stopped this guy LONG before he got halfway. And if he blew through our stop sign, sure, penalize him... But if for some crazy reason we did not try to stop him from crossing the field, I can't see a penalty here assuming he does as described in the OP and doesn't "start something".

I was not at the game so I don't know if anyone tried to stop him but it sounds like no one did.

I had this coach a few years ago and there was an injury TO. He went to the injured player and then started walking to his team's huddle which was about 10 yds away from the injured player. I told him he couldn't do that during an injury TO and he said he could. Whack! USC foul. This is the type of guy he is.

This situation in the OP is one to put into our memory banks and be ready for it.

Hey, you're the one who said it wasn't a foul. I merely pointed out that it is. I didn't invent anything. Get over yourself.

Nothing to get over, sir. And no offense intended. You quoted a rule that does not apply, then when questioned on it, implied you would use that inapplicable rule in the situation at hand. Sounds like rule inventing to me, but I'm open to hear your explanation (hopefully an actual explanation rather than a flippant response). I STILL say it's not a foul. Not as described in the OP.

You would have to call something here. If he is able to get past all of the officials and make it to the other sideline, you absolutely have to flag him. You have to put him on notice that his blatent disregard for our authority won't be accepted. This guy is proably the type of guy who always thinks the rules don't apply to him, and by putting this in the memory bank you have done a disservice to every official in the chapter for which you work. Also a flag for this action may potentially keep him in check for future situations, If not then he should become accoustomed to being flagged for unsporting actions.

Our job is not to put coaches "on notice", nor is it to "keep them in check". You sound like an baseball umpire.

Other than offending your sensibilities and thoughts on decorum, what RULE VIOLATION did the coach in the original post commit?

If the coach went across the field to confront another coach, they did a few rules violations IMO. Rule 9-8-1 says that the examples that are given are not limited to those actions listed in the rule. Now that might not be what some are looking for, but not sure I would just let it go if a coach did this or any sport for that matter. And yes on some level we are there to keep coaches and players from crossing lines. That is not a baseball thing, that is a sports officials thing. We do the same thing in basketball too and put a stop to actions of coaches and players or they will suffer the consequences.

Peace

First off, an authorized conference during a timeout can't be held in that location (in front of an opponent's bench) so if you wish to find a rule, there's one. That's enforced as UNS, BTW.

Secondly, the officials have wide latitude for calling UNS in just about any situation where it's warranted. Doesn't sound like the visit was to discuss where the coaches were going for afternoon tea.

Thirdly, the swipe against baseball umpires is unnecessary. I'm a baseball umpire and a football official. My role is no different on either field.

Well said.

How, exactly, did he disrespect our authority --- given that no one told him to stop? You say he thinks rules don't apply to him ... yet there's no rule being broken here. And in the OP, nothing unsporting happened. We are not given that conversation - and since nothing volatile happened after he went over there - it could have been something entirely inoccuous. I grant that no self-respecting official would have let him all the way across the field, but in the OP that's exactly what happened.

ok then you let him walk across your field .... He wouldnt be walking across mine...thats all im saying....and when I get the "whats the problem I did it last week and there wasn't an issue" I would tell said coach to find the previous weeks official and ask him why he could't control his game.

We had a game situation where a coach who started the game with 13 and after 3 injuries and being down by 30 wanted to speak to the opposing coach about shortening the game, which is possible by mutual consent of the opposing coaches and the Referee. He called a timeout and calmly walked out to the WH and informed him what he wanted to do and the two of them calmly walked over to the opposing sideline and then we all went home.

Then he did things properly. He went to the WH to explain an unusual situation and the WH calmly and professionally (from the way you described it) escorted him to the other sideline so they could have a discussion like adults. That isn't the only way to do things in an unusual situation, but it does seem acceptable and certainly within the spirit of the rules.

I guarantee you it's not the way they'd want to do it if the coaches wanted to discuss ditching the officiating crew without pay and immediately installing another. There are some things you just don't want the referee in on.

Huh?

I think you missed my point.

NO. I would not let him walk across my field. And if he blew through my stop sign he'd be flagged, and likely reported (to whatever authority matters depending on the level of the game). But in the OP, there was no official there stopping the guy.

That's just not going to happen. I don't work a single game around here without a contract. And supposing that I did work youth football without a contract -- I'm also an officer of two officiating associations -- good luck getting any competent officials after I'm done recommending to everyone that they not take your games.

The athletic director and principal be damned I guess.

I guess if both coaches can agree to:
a) take both their teams to another field off of school property where the AD, principal, etc. won't be able to stop them
b) find and use a competent officiating crew that is not part of any association
c) be content with the results of that game, regardless of how it goes for them
d) get the state association to accept the results of a game that it did not sanction
e) accept the personal liability risk for playing a game in a manner inconsistent with THEIR contracts
f) do so in a manner that no parents or fans will be angered that the game was not played in the time and location promised and subsequently complain

... then the coaches really don't need me on the field. I'm willing bet my house that it doesn't happen in THIS country before the heat death of the universe, with the coaches keeping their jobs.

Facetiousness-challenged? I'm just saying there might be reasonable circumstances wherein opposing coaches might want to confer during the game without the R's being in on it.

The one you posited was about as ridiculous as possible. Please feel free to name one possible (not potential) scenario where the R would or should not be included in such a discussion during a timeout.

This is correct. The rules governing this situation are in 2-6-2. This coach is allowed on the field during a timeout. We see unauthorized conferences all the time, either a sideline conference that wanders outside the numbers or a between the nine conference where more than one coach comes out. We correct these situations with a warning, and if they comply and correct the error immediately, no flag is thrown. This situation is the same. He should be warned that he may not be past the hash mark on the opponents side of the field, and if he doesn't comply, he should be flagged for USC. The fact that no one stopped or warned him makes it a stretch for me to flag him in this situation.

What if he goes around the field?

2-32-10 defines a coach to be in the category of "nonplayers".

9-8-3 states that a nonplayer shall not be outside his team box (except for three in the restricted area).

The team box does not extend "around" the field. Therefore, he has gone outside his team box. If someone isn't uncomfortable banging him for that, you've also got 9-9-5, with the "travesty of the game" clause.

^What he said^

Sometimes I can't believe what I read here. The coaches aren't allowed out of their team area. The exception to that is whn they have a timeout at which point they are allowed to address their team between the hashes. This is the exception. Since this coach is not operating within this exception, we are well within the rules to flag him.

That being said, he had to walk past 5 officials on the way to the other sideline. Although a foul certainly could be called in this scenario, the crew should try to get him back first.

"Travesty of the game" would be an outright ridiculous call. You're taking the football game as subsuming the whole world, instead of being just one part of a person's life. Obviously nonplayers can leave their team box to use the bathroom, go talk to a friend, etc. If two coaches want to have a meeting, that's a level of conduct outside of and superseding the game, not part of the game and its administration. It does not interfere with the game, and the game should not interfere with it.

I don't think that this is the point. The rule says that the coach is allowed between the hashes to "address his team" this is an exception to the prohibition of him being on the field. If it is a TO, and he is not addressing his team, he is outside the exception.

I'm sure some of you have had the situation where the coach calls a time out (not a ref/coach conference) and makes a beeline to the referee to complain. In that circumstance I tell him he can have a conference w me or his team, not both. He usually looks at me with a bewildered look, swears under his breath and storms off.

I'm not sure what point you think I was trying to make, but I think we probably agree more than you would guess. I'm merely saying that during timeouts, coaches and conferences frequently go outside the exception, and we correct it without flags. In this instance, the crew could have corrected this before the coach ever got close to the other sideline. Since the coach was not stopped or warned, they missed an opportunity to correct this situation without even considering a flag. Any flag for USC after the fact is partly on the crew, IMO.

You are right, we are mostly in agreement. My only point of disagreement was that the coach is not addressing his team. Thus, it wouldn t matter if he was screaming at the other coach from the middle of the field. If he's not addressing his team, he has no reason to be out there.

If the coaches have agreed to have a game, gotten it sanctioned by whatever authority, hired officials, invited fans (and maybe charged admission) and trained their players, then for the period of time that the game occurs, that game and its rules are their life. It is so because they have agreed to make it so.

The rules demand that unless there is a good reason for one coach to NEED to talk to another, AND the WH allows the conversation, he's not going to cross the field without penalty.

We're not gonna hold up action because two guys who should be working want to have tea and crumpets at mid-field.

They'd have to put a stop on my check since I normally receive a check or cash before the game starts.

I agree with this as well. If he were to start yelling at the other sideline, I'd still warn him to stop or leave the field. If he didn't comply, I'd flag him.

What if the peanut vendor is on the other side of the field, and the coach wants peanuts?

He needs to send the trainer, photographer, statistician, or one of the dozen other people who want to be in the restricted zone, but can't be.

SECTION 8 NONCONTACT UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT BY NONPLAYERS
ART. 1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall
act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for
the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:

You are just being a contrarian if you really think this is a serious question.

Peace

Not an issue here. Coaches are worried about winning to keep their jobs, not eating peanuts during the game.

Why does this thread keep getting bumped with inanities. Let it die.

You are a moderator right? :D

Peace

It hasn't reached the closing threshold yet but it's getting close...

And he should send the ball boy anyway. God knows I can't find him.

I'll second that.

. Oh that's easy, he's over talking to the cheerleaders.

That's the difference in our assumptions. Football is played under all sorts of different conditions. I'm used to ones where there may be a dozen other people hanging around, but they don't realize a football game is going on nearby, and the peanut vendor is there to service the people playing Frisbee on the next field.

Then you should have specified "intramural".

I had in mind the level I coach, i.e. 12Us. Other than there being a Good Humor truck rather than a peanut vendor, this approximates our conditions some of the time. An assistant coach might very well be sent across the field during a time out to buy refreshments. However, in our particular conditions the situation described would not come up, because our team bench areas are on the same side of the field, the Good Humor man on the opposite side. Still, I could easily imagine an arrangement where the teams were on opposite sidelines and the Good Humor man on one of them.

Then make your assistant coach walk around the field. He'll burn off those good humor calories that way.