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-   -   snap over punters head----safety? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/92291-snap-over-punters-head-safety.html)

Rich Sun Sep 09, 2012 06:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853803)
#1, the play occurred on a Friday night in Georgia. I don't think it's much of an assumption that this game was played under NFHS rules.

#2, I'm dying to know under what rules can intentional grounding be called on a backwards pass?
#2 - In NCAA a backwards pass thrown out of bounds to conserve time is a foul. 5 yards spot of foul, loss of down.

It's not really called intentional grounding in the book, although it is enforced as such.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 09, 2012 06:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 853847)
#2 - In NCAA a backwards pass thrown out of bounds to conserve time is a foul. 5 yards spot of foul, loss of down.

It's not really called intentional grounding in the book, although it is enforced as such.
Yep, I'm aware of that.

But the punter in Wolverine's play who threw the ball out of the back of the end zone wasn't doing so to conserve time.

So I'm waiting to find out what rules code is used in a Friday night football game in Georgia that says this play is intentional grounding. ;)

maven Sun Sep 09, 2012 07:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853803)
#1, the play occurred on a Friday night in Georgia. I don't think it's much of an assumption that this game was played under NFHS rules.

#2, I'm dying to know under what rules can intentional grounding be called on a backwards pass?
1. The OP didn't state the rule set, so it's an assumption. Good, fair, or "not much" of an assumption if you like.

2. NCAA A.R. 3-4-3 III: throwing a backwards pass out of bounds in order to conserve time is penalized as IG (even though not technically defined as IG).

Rich Sun Sep 09, 2012 07:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853851)
Yep, I'm aware of that.

But the punter in Wolverine's play who threw the ball out of the back of the end zone wasn't doing so to conserve time.

So I'm waiting to find out what rules code is used in a Friday night football game in Georgia that says this play is intentional grounding. ;)
I never said it was. Clearly, the officials in that game were a bit rule-challenged.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 09, 2012 08:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by maven (Post 853858)
1. The OP didn't state the rule set, so it's an assumption. Good, fair, or "not much" of an assumption if you like.

2. NCAA A.R. 3-4-3 III: throwing a backwards pass out of bounds in order to conserve time is penalized as IG (even though not technically defined as IG).
Maven, you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by maven (Post 853716)
2. I'd have to know more to assess whether that's a good IG call. If the passer was in the field of play when he committed the foul, the penalty is not a safety, though the result of the play is. If that was the case, your options should have been: accept (half the distance from the spot of the foul, LOD), or decline (safety). OTOH, if the foul occurred in the EZ, again you'd have an option between a safety or a safety.
Under no rule set would IG be the appropriate call. The play is perfectly legal under NFHS, NCAA and NFL rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 853864)
I never said it was. Clearly, the officials in that game were a bit rule-challenged.
I didn't say you did.

I was referring to the poster above.

maven Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853875)
Under no rule set would IG be the appropriate call. The play is perfectly legal under NFHS, NCAA and NFL rules.
Fair enough: you're correct that the IG call in the OP was bad. I knew that NCAA had a provision prohibiting a backwards pass in some situations, and mistakenly thought that might apply here.

The remainder of my post concerning enforcement was correct, as you omitted to point out.

rsevign1 Mon Sep 10, 2012 01:18pm
No live ball foul by B, safety on A whether they commit a live ball foul or not.
Live ball foul by B and no foul by A; enforce penalty for live ball foul by B (no safety).
Live ball foul by A and live foul by B should result in off-setting fouls and a replay of down.

So the best thing to teach the kicker, assuming he can't legally kick ball into field of play is to backward pass such that it goes out of bounds in the end zone. No live ball foul if the kicker muffs his attempt to gain possession and the ball goes out of bounds in the end zone, but this relies on judgment by the covering official.

Suudy Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:43pm
There has been mention of picking up and throwing it out of th EZ. But what about batting? Would batting a loose ball backward and out of th EZ be a foul?

WestCoaster Wed Sep 12, 2012 03:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suudy (Post 854191)
There has been mention of picking up and throwing it out of th EZ. But what about batting? Would batting a loose ball backward and out of th EZ be a foul?
Rule 9-7-2 No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in flight, or a low scrimmage kick in flight which he is attempting to block in or behind the expanded neutral zone.

Exceptions listed deal with batting scrimmage kicks, which this is not. So yes, it would be illegal batting.


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