Gotta play for you
 

This is from a test presented at our local clinic. I'll give the play and the options given:

Score tied - 1st overtime period. A 4/9 @ B12. A19's field goal hits the cross bar and lands in the end zone. During the kick, B55 holds A88 in the end zone.

A) Safety
B) A 1/G @ B6
C) Carry foul over to next overtime period
D) A 4/G @ B4 - PSK does not apply

(Obviously you cannot have 4/9 in overtime, but I think he threw that in there to see if anybody would catch it)

EDIT: NFHS RULES ONLY

Is none of the above an option?

PSK does not apply so we have a foul during a Kick (Loose Ball Play) and the enforcement spot is the previous spot (10-4-2b).

The resulting down will be 4th & G at the B6 if the previous spot was the B12 or 4th & G at the B4 1/2 if the previous spot was the B9.

None of the above was not an option, although I agree it should be.

He wouldn't tell us the answer, but assured us that one of them was correct. I'm not so sure about that.

B. Easy. Think about it.

What is the penalty for defensive holding?

It doesn't carry an automatic first down.

Sorry, should specify this is NFHS

We think it should be 1/2 distance from previous spot - 4/G from the B6.

But he swears one of those answers is correct and there are no typos.

None of those answers are correct for NFHS.

E. Why would you call defensive holding in the EZ on a field goal attempt?:eek:

I want to go with (B) because of the succeeding spot is half the distance but can't figure out why it would be first down. however I'm going to select (C) because it doesn't define the enforcement.

I am utilizing the WAG principle at this point:(

Ah... nevermind! :)

I now notice your aside that there can't be 4th and 9 from the 12... does this imply that in FED, you cannot EVER have chains in overtime? Even, for example, after a DPI at the 15?

PS - if he insists there are no typos ... what is 4th and 9 from the 12? Is it possible he's being sneaky and the 4th and 9 from the 12 is supposed to be your clue that the game is not FED, but instead NCAA?

Correct. By rule, all new series in FED overtime are 1st-and-goal, regardless of where they start.

PLAY: Team A wins the toss to begin overtime. There is a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty pending against Team B. What are A's options?

ANSWER: A may (1) choose to go on offense, 1st-and-goal from the B-5, or (2) choose to play defense, with B having the ball 1st-and-goal at the A-25.

Ohio uses modified OT, we can have a first an ten.

As does Wisconsin. Essentially they use NCAA OT.

NJ too.

Oh, hypotheticals.

How much time does it take between the snap and the time the ball crosses the goal line during a 19-yard field goal attempt?

Is that enough time for A88 to get 12 yards down field, and then be held in the end zone?

There must be an error in D. How can you have 4/9, enforce a penalty, then have the next down for A be 4/G? Either the penalty yardage will be enough for a new series (1/G), or replay 4th down with something to go. In the answer D the ball will be at B4 which is 8 yards away from the previous spot. My math tells me that would be 4/1.

For the record, I do not think D is correct. I have not done any research yet, but if one of these HAS to be correct, I will vote for C.

Is the foul for defensive holding under NCAA a 10 or 5 yard walk-off plus a first down?

Assuming hold occurs after the ball has passed the goal line, C).
Although I'd opt for a dead ball PF, not a hold, B 1/G @ A25.

But the ball isn't dead until it's clear the FG is unsuccessful, right?

(I'm new to Football, so I'm following this thread to learn.)

Almost...

The FG could be rolling on the ground short of the goal line and still be live. It's clearly unsuccessful, but since it's a scrimmage kick, it's still live until it breaks the plane of the goal line, comes to rest with no one around, recovered and downed by the receiving team (defensive team) or goes out of bounds short of the goal line.

Fair enough, but in the OP, the FG attempt hits the crossbar. It's already crossed the goal line. So at this point, once it's apparent the FG attempt is not successful, the ball becomes dead, right? How can you have a DB foul if it occurs "during the kick?"

I was responding to ODJ's assertion that the ball is dead once the ball passed the goal line.

Gotcha.... you already understand the rule and know that ODJ's assertion is incorrect -- 4-2-2d2


As Walt correctly points out, this play is silly. That being said, if somehow this could all take place in a very short window, nobody with a lick of sense would consider throwing a flag for holding in the EZ on this play. Flagging this for a dead ball foul would be even worse.

The hold while the kick is in the air has absolutely no impact on what happens with this play. The field goal will either be good, or no good and the ball will become dead when the kick ends.

This uses the same rationale that we use to ignore a hold immediately after the snap by a defender on the near sideline when the play goes immediately to the far sideline.

I agree that the whole premise of the question is silly. It's one thing to test rule knowledge but another for the test writer to try and show off how smart he is.

Perhaps this was meant to be a passing play, but due to the hold in the endzone, his player was not open, and Doug Flutie drop-kicked it through the uprights.

That was my thought too -- that the practical answer is you didn't see it. Holding by R could only be an advantage to set up a subsequent runback, which would be possible in Fed only until the ball reached the goal line and in NCAA only until it hit the bar, and given the circumstances I don't think either was in the offing.

He said the holding occurred during the kick.