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Fri May 23, 2003, 01:04pm
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NCAA rules:
1. A 2/8 @ A4. A22 muffs the handoff from A10 on the A2. The ball rolls into A's end zone. A32 picks up the ball, runs, and is tackled on the A12. During the fumble, B55 grabbed and twisted A10's facemask. Your ruling... 
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Fri May 23, 2003, 01:20pm
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Fed rules
Quote:
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Fri May 23, 2003, 03:28pm
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NCAA Ruling...
For NCAA, there is no such thing as a loose ball play. The foul the JMN describes in his original post takes place during a running play [NCAA 2-30-4:"A running play is any live-ball action other than that which occurs before player possession is reestablished during a free kick play, a scrimmage kick play or a legal forward pass play."]. According to NCAA enforcement principles, the penalty for this foul is enforced from the previous spot. [NCAA 10-2-2c(2): "When the run ends behind the neutral zone before a change of team possession, the basic enforcement spot is the previous spot (Exceptions : Offensive team facemask, illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block and personal fouls, behind the neutral zone, are enforced from the previous spot. Safety if the foul occurs behind Team As goal line)"]
So you may ask, what's the difference between FED and NCAA on this play? Because the ball was loose, nothing (except that the NCAA penalty for a PF by B includes an automatic 1st down). But...imagine there's no loose ball. For example, a QB is sacked for a 10 yard loss. Suppose there was an PF face mask on the tackle. In Federation, this is a running play, which says that the penalty is enforced from the end of the run. So, A would effectively gain 5 yards and get to replay the down. The same play under NCAA rules would have the penalty enforced from the previous spot--and he'd get an automatic first down on top of that! I've often thought that this play (QB sacked way back with a defensive foul) is one of the most inequitable enforcements in Federation ball. Just think...if he's sacked for a loss of more than 15 yards, accepting the penalty will actually result in a loss of yardage!
__________________
Bob M.
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Fri May 23, 2003, 04:03pm
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Bob,
Just for clarification in my own mind, in the play above are there 2 running plays? When the handoff was muffed that ends the first run, when A32 is tackled here endeth the second run? Is that why in your post you mention the run ending behind the line of scrimmage? Because if it is only one run then the run ended beyond the line and the enforcement spot would be the end of the run??
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Fri May 23, 2003, 04:06pm
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Re: NCAA Ruling...
Quote:
So with that, I would suggest we have A 1/10 @ A27 (auto first down if they didn't make the line to gain). This one threw me, too. Does this make sense?
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Tue May 27, 2003, 09:10am
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To cmathews and JMN
cmathews...I think you've got it. The first run ended with the muffed handoff (behind the line). Then the foul occurred--during the loose ball. By definition, that foul is deemed to have occurred during A10's related run. A32's recovery and subsequent run is immaterial to the enforcement for B's face mask foul.
JMN...IMHO, I believe you're reading too much into 2-25-10c. I think that this enforcement procedure refers specifically to situations where a change of possession renders the neutral zone obsolete, hence the references to "...interception runbacks, kick runbacks, fumble advances, etc." The rule probably could be better worded by saying "...fumble advances after a change of possession,etc." I don't think that this play qualifies for enforcement under 2-25-10c. Rather, the basic spot is determined by 2-25-10b, and the penalty is enforced under 10-2-2c(2).
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Bob M.
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Mon Jun 09, 2003, 03:32am
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Quote:
A's choice: 1/10 @ A19 (15y from PLS) or A 1/10 @ A27 (15y from PBD). Mike
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