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Tim C Thu Feb 09, 2012 02:00pm

NFHS Football Rules Changes
 
INDIANAPOLIS, IN (February 9, 2012) — High school football players must sit out one play next year if their helmet comes off while the ball is live.

In cases where the helmet comes completely off without it being directly attributable to a foul by the opponent, the player will have to leave the game for at least one down.

This addition to Rule 3-5-10 was one of eight rules changes approved by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Football Rules Committee at its January 20-22 meeting in Indianapolis. All rules changes were subsequently approved by the NFHS Board of Directors.

“The committee made this rules change after reviewing data from multiple states regarding the frequency of helmets coming off during live-ball play,” said Julian Tackett, chair of the Football Rules Committee and commissioner of the Kentucky High School Athletic Association. “It is the committee’s hope that this serves notice for schools to properly fit players with helmets to reduce the incidence of these situations and remind the players not to take steps that alter the fit.”

Another significant change next season will be a new interpretation of a legal catch. A receiver now will be required to establish possession of the ball and contact the ground inbounds while maintaining possession – regardless of the opponent’s action.

“In previous years, the covering official could have ruled that an airborne player attempting to catch the ball would have come down inbounds, but was prevented from doing so because of contact by the opponent,” said Bob Colgate, NFHS director of sports and sports medicine and liaison to the Football Rules Committee. “Now, the player must establish possession and contact the ground inbounds for a legal catch.”

The Football Rules Committee also cleared the way for state associations and their member schools to place corporate advertising and/or commercial markings on the field of play. These types of markings previously were only allowed in the end zones and outside the field.

Rule 1-2-3l will state that while corporate advertising and/or commercial markings will be allowed, the markings may not obstruct the yard lines, hash marks or nine-yard marks.

A risk-minimization change was made to Rule 2-3-7 that changes an interpretation for blocking below the waist.

“The previous interpretation was that it was not a foul for a player to block below the waist if the hand(s) of the opponent was first contacted below the waist,” Colgate said. “This revision changes that interpretation and stipulates that such action is a foul.”

After experimentation in Minnesota and Iowa, the committee revised Rule 9-3-8 to prohibit members of the kicking team from initiating contact (blocking) against members of the receiving team until the ball has broken the plane of the receiving team’s restraining line, or until the kicking team is eligible to recover the free kick.

The other three rules changes approved by the committee include Rule 1-5-3c(8), which expands the list of illegal equipment to include play cards that are not worn on the wrist or arm, as well as Rule 9-4-3h, which now states that grasping the tooth and mouth protector, as well as the face mask, is a foul. Also, to provide guidance to game officials, the committee clarified Rule 9-4-3k by adding the direction in which the opponent was pulled during a horse-collar.

Finally, the NFHS decided to extend the effective date of its new glove rule from 2012 to 2013. During the 2012 season, both gloves meeting the current standard and gloves meeting the new standard will be legal for play.

“The game of football at the high school level is in great shape, and the committee continues to review all available data to minimize the risk to participants,” Tackett said. “A hallmark to the NFHS playing rules is the constant emphasis on risk minimization, as well as historic tenets regarding the balance between offense and defense and making the rules appropriate for the levels of the coaches, players and officials.”

Football is the No. 1 participatory sport for boys at the high school level with 1,134,377 participants in the 2010-11 school year, according to the High School Athletics Participation Survey conducted by the NFHS through its member state associations. In addition, the survey indicated there were 1,561 girls who played football in 2010-11.

Ia-Ref Thu Feb 09, 2012 04:36pm

Thanks Tim.

In Iowa, contrary to the release, the only reqirement on free kicks that was different from the Fed rule was that there had to be at least 4 members of the kicking team on both sides of the kicker. That does not seem to be addressed.
I never thought this was a problem before the experiment.

http://www.iahsaa.org/football/11_IH...ee%20Kicks.pdf

BktBallRef Thu Feb 09, 2012 05:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 822111)
INDIANAPOLIS, IN (February 9, 2012) — “The committee made this rules change after reviewing data from multiple states regarding the frequency of helmets coming off during live-ball play,” said Julian Tackett, chair of the Football Rules Committee and commissioner of the Kentucky High School Athletic Association. “It is the committee’s hope that this serves notice for schools to properly fit players with helmets to reduce the incidence of these situations and remind the players not to take steps that alter the fit.”

NC was involved in recording the number of players who lost their helmet during a play. The numbers were staggering.

HLin NC Fri Feb 10, 2012 09:28am

Quote:

I never thought this was a problem before the experiment.
Typical monkey see-monkey do reaction to higher levels.

mbyron Fri Feb 10, 2012 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 822452)
Typical monkey see-monkey do reaction to higher levels.

You say MSMD; they say, why reinvent the wheel?

CT1 Fri Feb 10, 2012 02:14pm

I like the blocking restrictions for KOs, the helmet penalty, & the revised definition of a catch.

Not sure about the HC revision until I see the full text & case plays.

I don't like the revised BBW rule as explained in the press release. We see many blocks that don't rise to the "potentially dangerous" level because the blockee has ample time to protect himself. I'd like it better if they had changed it to "any block at or below the knees."

bcl1127 Tue Feb 21, 2012 02:55pm

Just a side note, I heard that the mechanics for kick offs will not have the BJ at the 40, the L and LJ both at the 50 and the U and R deep. Not sure if I like this change for something that was not really much of an issue, at least in my area.

JRutledge Tue Feb 21, 2012 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcl1127 (Post 826366)
Just a side note, I heard that the mechanics for kick offs will not have the BJ at the 40, the L and LJ both at the 50 and the U and R deep. Not sure if I like this change for something that was not really much of an issue, at least in my area.

Where would the BJ go if they are not at the 40 and two officials are at the 50? And are these NF changes or IHSA changes?

Peace

Rich Tue Feb 21, 2012 05:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 826400)
Where would the BJ go if they are not at the 40 and two officials are at the 50? And are these NF changes or IHSA changes?

Peace

I think he meant "now" at the 40. Essentially, the L would move up to be on one side of the restraining line.

So we'd have the BJ with the kickers, the LJ and the L with the receivers, and the R and U deep. I'd love to see them move both the U and R to the pylons, if this is actually an NFHS mechanics change.

bcl1127 Tue Feb 21, 2012 05:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826403)
I think he meant "now" at the 40. Essentially, the L would move up to be on one side of the restraining line.

So we'd have the BJ with the kickers, the LJ and the L with the receivers, and the R and U deep. I'd love to see them move both the U and R to the pylons, if this is actually an NFHS mechanics change.

Sorry I did mean now. This is the year that they are up dating the mechanics manual, so I believe that this will be the change. Personally, I like the coverage of the kicks as it is now, and shift in on-sides situations there is ample field coverage, not sure how this change will impact that. I would also like to see the U start at the pylon as the legs keep getting stronger and stronger.

JRutledge Tue Feb 21, 2012 05:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826403)
I think he meant "now" at the 40. Essentially, the L would move up to be on one side of the restraining line.

So we'd have the BJ with the kickers, the LJ and the L with the receivers, and the R and U deep. I'd love to see them move both the U and R to the pylons, if this is actually an NFHS mechanics change.

We (meaning the IHSA) already had the BJ at the 40, that is why I asked. ;)

At least that is the case in our mechanics, not necessarily what the NF does. The L moving to the 50 would be a change as only the LJ was located there already opposite the BJ. And it was our option as well to have the U on the pylon based on the ability of the kickers. The R was already there pretty much based on the actual mechanics. I would just wonder now if the IHSA would adopt the U being on the pylon at all times. I guess we will see by later this spring.

Peace

Tom.OH Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826403)
I think he meant "now" at the 40. Essentially, the L would move up to be on one side of the restraining line.

So we'd have the BJ with the kickers, the LJ and the L with the receivers, and the R and U deep. I'd love to see them move both the U and R to the pylons, if this is actually an NFHS mechanics change.

Rich, the Ohio mechanics have the BJ on the 40, the U on the 50, R on the goal line and the L &LJ on the goal line pylons for the first free kick for each team. We then adjust for the next kick. If the first kick is long inside the 5 or deeper we will stay on the goal line. If the kick is shorter we will move to the 10. We will watch the kicker in warm ups or ask the coach if his kicker can get it to the end zone. Our football director wants the goal line protected.

mbyron Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom.OH (Post 826526)
Rich, the Ohio mechanics have the BJ on the 40, the U on the 50, R on the goal line and the L &LJ on the goal line pylons for the first free kick for each team. We then adjust for the next kick. If the first kick is long inside the 5 or deeper we will stay on the goal line. If the kick is shorter we will move to the 10. We will watch the kicker in warm ups or ask the coach if his kicker can get it to the end zone. Our football director wants the goal line protected.

1. I doubt that Rich cares right now what Ohio does.

2. He might change his mind when he learns that the OHSAA guy who instigated the "Ohio mechanic" for free kicks is chair of the NFHS rules committee for football. ;)

Rich Wed Feb 22, 2012 04:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom.OH (Post 826526)
Rich, the Ohio mechanics have the BJ on the 40, the U on the 50, R on the goal line and the L &LJ on the goal line pylons for the first free kick for each team. We then adjust for the next kick. If the first kick is long inside the 5 or deeper we will stay on the goal line. If the kick is shorter we will move to the 10. We will watch the kicker in warm ups or ask the coach if his kicker can get it to the end zone. Our football director wants the goal line protected.

I want 3 officials on the goal line, too. I sure hope this is the new NFHS mechanic. If you've ever watched the Sumstine Aloha Classic videos, he advocates for this, as well.

JRutledge Wed Feb 22, 2012 04:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826758)
I want 3 officials on the goal line, too. I sure hope this is the new NFHS mechanic. If you've ever watched the Sumstine Aloha Classic videos, he advocates for this, as well.

That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

Rich Wed Feb 22, 2012 05:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 826767)
That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

On Friday nights? We had quite a few kickers this past year that routinely kicked touchbacks. Most varsity kickers where we worked put the ball inside the 10-15 regularly.

Regardless, it's better starting on the goal line and working up than trying to pick up your blocks as the ball zips past you and potentially having to turn your head if the ball threatens the sideline. A L at the 30 having to turn to watch the ball go out of bounds behind him is pretty useless picking up illegal blocks, etc.

Putting the L and U (or whoever) on the GL (or even the 10) means if there's a short kick, they can run forward -- and regardless, the players and action will always be in *front* of them.

JRutledge Wed Feb 22, 2012 06:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826776)
On Friday nights? We had quite a few kickers this past year that routinely kicked touchbacks. Most varsity kickers where we worked put the ball inside the 10-15 regularly.

I understand that, but I think two or one official can cover that just fine. Also this also means that the ball is recovered to about the 20-35 on some level and that puts a lot of pressure on the BJ or wing to cover blocks in the middle of the field. I think that is more of a hot spot than near the GL which most Referees can cover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826776)
Regardless, it's better starting on the goal line and working up than trying to pick up your blocks as the ball zips past you and potentially having to turn your head if the ball threatens the sideline. A L at the 30 having to turn to watch the ball go out of bounds behind him is pretty useless picking up illegal blocks, etc.

And it would be harder for guys on the 40 and 50 to do the same with blocks. Too much happens in the 10 yard part of the field that if missed would be hard to cover if they had to now follow the ball on a short kick IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826776)
Putting the L and U (or whoever) on the GL (or even the 10) means if there's a short kick, they can run forward -- and regardless, the players and action will always be in *front* of them.

I would go for them moving to the 10 than on the both on the GL. Even in 7 man they put 4 officials on the 40 and 50 to cover all those blocks. Just as an experienced BJ I would hate to have to now have to cover the ball in a way I never have to under the current state mechanics we use. I guess I was not under the impression that the NF did not have officials in the place that was suggested, but that is the way we have done it for years.

Peace

Robert Goodman Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:17pm

Why not analyze this issue in terms of what's likely to be missed, how often, and how severe the consequences? Seems to me the chance of missing a touchback that should've been called when someone reaches over the plane of the goal line for the ball so it can't be seen except by an official whose eye is in that plane whether the ball broke that plane is pretty small compared to calls that might be missed elsewhere on the field. The consequences in the touchback case might be substantial, but I don't know that they'd be greater on avg. than the consequences of other blown calls on a kickoff.

azbigdawg Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 826789)
I understand that, but I think two or one official can cover that just fine. Also this also means that the ball is recovered to about the 20-35 on some level and that puts a lot of pressure on the BJ or wing to cover blocks in the middle of the field. I think that is more of a hot spot than near the GL which most Referees can cover.



And it would be harder for guys on the 40 and 50 to do the same with blocks. Too much happens in the 10 yard part of the field that if missed would be hard to cover if they had to now follow the ball on a short kick IMO.



I would go for them moving to the 10 than on the both on the GL. Even in 7 man they put 4 officials on the 40 and 50 to cover all those blocks. Just as an experienced BJ I would hate to have to now have to cover the ball in a way I never have to under the current state mechanics we use. I guess I was not under the impression that the NF did not have officials in the place that was suggested, but that is the way we have done it for years.

Peace

In AZ, BJ has the kickers, LJ has the receivers, HL and U are on a pylon, R is in the middle on the goal line. If kicks are consistenly short, the U and the HL will slide up to the 10. It seems to work out well, and from looking at film, it doesn't look like we miss a lot. Whichever sideline official is across the field form the kick starts upfield and takes the blocking in front of the runner. That alleviates some of the possible gaps in coverage.

CT1 Thu Feb 23, 2012 08:34am

Our state starts the H & U on the 20, the R between the GL & 5. We're seeing a lot more "pooch" kicks that are received (and often fair caught) around the 30. This coverage allows them to 'split the difference" while still covering leading blocks ahead of a returner.

Rich Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbigdawg (Post 826840)
In AZ, BJ has the kickers, LJ has the receivers, HL and U are on a pylon, R is in the middle on the goal line. If kicks are consistenly short, the U and the HL will slide up to the 10. It seems to work out well, and from looking at film, it doesn't look like we miss a lot. Whichever sideline official is across the field form the kick starts upfield and takes the blocking in front of the runner. That alleviates some of the possible gaps in coverage.

And Arizona is the state that implemented what Sumstine has been preaching in the Aloha Classic videos for years -- he's mentioned it in the videos. We've played with this coverage in subvarsity games and it's fantastic. If the kick is short, the pylon officials run forward and are probably 10 yards ahead by the time the kick comes down -- they have everything in front of them and can cover exactly what they cover starting on the 20/30 -- even more, actually since nothing will ever force them to turn and look behind them.

My eyes are good -- I can pick up a bad block at the 25-30 from a long distance away. I have *no chance* to pick up that block, however, if I'm the L and the kick threatens my sideline behind me. None.

I'd rather have 7 officials, but we're not getting any more anytime soon.

JRutledge Thu Feb 23, 2012 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 826998)
My eyes are good -- I can pick up a bad block at the 25-30 from a long distance away. I have *no chance* to pick up that block, however, if I'm the L and the kick threatens my sideline behind me. None.

I'd rather have 7 officials, but we're not getting any more anytime soon.

I do not agree with that necessarily as it is based on what you are focused on and what you have experience doing. I am just saying that the GL is one of the easiest things to cover on a kick off and you do not need 3 guys to do it. You are always going to have holes no matter what we do with 5 officials, but the GL is usually based solely on the ability of the kicker and not many HS teams have a kicker that can even threaten the GL in the first place. I would rather put more officials further up the field. Seven officials would be much better of course, but until that happens putting the majority of the 5 man crew at a place where little takes place is not IMO helpful to total coverage. If they did change it, we would deal with it, but I do not think it is the best way to cover these plays, especially with many players withing the first 20 yards from the kick off line.

Peace

bisonlj Thu Feb 23, 2012 05:28pm

We implemented Matt's suggestion this year and started the U and H on the 10 with the R on the goal line. The U and H aren't helping as much with goal line for touchbacks but does need to be in position to rule on balls that threaten the pylon. If you start on the 20 or 30 you will have a hard time getting that angle. The pylon wasn't threatened often but it was enough that we appreciated being where we were.

The better reason for starting there was the ability to keep everything in front of you and not having the kick pass by your face. If we had teams that always kicked short or pooch kicked it to the 30-40 we had no problems covering that.

In our last playoff game I had a kicker sail one that flew about 10 yards OVER the top of the pylon. I reacted late so I wasn't standing at the pylon when it went over but I was close enough I felt comfortable ruling touchback. We started the rest of the game on the pylon. Most of the kicks threatened the goal line (over 100 points scored so there were a lot of kicks) and a couple threatened the pylon. We also had some pooch kicks that we were able to cover with no issues.

I personally think it would be better to have the H and L deep since they are more accustomed to ruling on things like progress. If they want 3 with the kick lines then I think the R and whoever else is deep should both start on the plyons. They can move up if the kicks are consistently short.

Rich Fri Feb 24, 2012 01:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 827146)
I do not agree with that necessarily as it is based on what you are focused on and what you have experience doing. I am just saying that the GL is one of the easiest things to cover on a kick off and you do not need 3 guys to do it. You are always going to have holes no matter what we do with 5 officials, but the GL is usually based solely on the ability of the kicker and not many HS teams have a kicker that can even threaten the GL in the first place. I would rather put more officials further up the field. Seven officials would be much better of course, but until that happens putting the majority of the 5 man crew at a place where little takes place is not IMO helpful to total coverage. If they did change it, we would deal with it, but I do not think it is the best way to cover these plays, especially with many players withing the first 20 yards from the kick off line.

Peace

The majority of the illegal blocks I see on kickoffs are on the first threat to the returner -- not up the field further. Most of those illegal blocks are inside the 20, in my experience, unless a kick is broken through the first line of defense.

Robert Goodman Fri Feb 24, 2012 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 827287)
The majority of the illegal blocks I see on kickoffs are on the first threat to the returner -- not up the field further. Most of those illegal blocks are inside the 20, in my experience, unless a kick is broken through the first line of defense.

But what kind of illegal are they? When you have team K running full speed past a set of blockers close to their own restraining line, the incentive to reach outside and grab someone otherwise whooshing by must be great. Those players on team R are often among the slowest on the roster, and it's hard for them to get their bodies in the path of the coverage.

bcl1127 Fri Feb 24, 2012 04:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 827400)
But what kind of illegal are they? When you have team K running full speed past a set of blockers close to their own restraining line, the incentive to reach outside and grab someone otherwise whooshing by must be great. Those players on team R are often among the slowest on the roster, and it's hard for them to get their bodies in the path of the coverage.

BIB is very very common.

Robert Goodman Fri Feb 24, 2012 08:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcl1127 (Post 827435)
BIB is very very common.

But we're looking at what RichMSN picks up most often. How do we know that he's not seeing most BiB, and missing the holds in the situation described above?

CT1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 827400)
But what kind of illegal are they?

Mostly either BiB or BBW.

Quote:

Those players on team R are often among the slowest on the roster, and it's hard for them to get their bodies in the path of the coverage.
I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team. Holding by R before the runback starts is very rare.

bcl1127 Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 827595)
I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team. Holding by R before the runback starts is very rare.

Agreed here...I was thinking the same thing when I read the OP

Rich Sat Feb 25, 2012 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 827595)
Mostly either BiB or BBW.


I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team. Holding by R before the runback starts is very rare.

Holding is common close to the LOS on punts, typically by R players slowing up gunners. Just doesn't happen on kickoffs, IME.

Most illegal activity on kickoffs, in my experience, are close to the point of attack - either IBB or IBBW. I'd say that with the current mechanics system I personally flag at least half of those fouls. Clearly, if there's a long return, that foul can be downfield, however many of these fouls happen right around the time R catches the ball.

My point is that I think the the AZ mechanic puts the officials where I think they can see the most without sacrificing sideline / pylon coverage.

Robert Goodman Sun Feb 26, 2012 01:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 827595)
I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team.

I meant the ones lined up close to the neutral zone.

JRutledge Sun Feb 26, 2012 01:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 827764)
I meant the ones lined up close to the neutral zone.

And those are the ones I would be most concerned about. Yes contact might take place after the return, but I have yet to see an official if positioned properly that cannot tell if the ball was across the GL. Unlike college the ball is dead when it crosses the GL. To rule on that is an easy call to make. The players in that first wave often do other things that need attention that is why I would not like that change at all from having been in both positions on the field. If they changed, oh well. I am sure my crew would discuss the coverage and what is more important to observe. We did that already and covered the game just fine.

Peace

CT1 Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 827764)
I meant the ones lined up close to the neutral zone.

I can't think of the last time I enforced a holding call against an R player near the NZ on a kickoff return. It just doesn't happen around here. The fouls we typically see on KOs happen just before or just after the return man receives the ball.

Rich Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 827770)
And those are the ones I would be most concerned about. Yes contact might take place after the return, but I have yet to see an official if positioned properly that cannot tell if the ball was across the GL. Unlike college the ball is dead when it crosses the GL. To rule on that is an easy call to make. The players in that first wave often do other things that need attention that is why I would not like that change at all from having been in both positions on the field. If they changed, oh well. I am sure my crew would discuss the coverage and what is more important to observe. We did that already and covered the game just fine.

Peace

Except I don't really care about the coverage on the GL -- it's the fact that an L or U *must* turn his head if the ball threatens the sideline behind him or the pylon that bothers me -- it essentially takes an official completely out of the play and takes him away from watching players even near to him.

JRutledge Mon Feb 27, 2012 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 828181)
Except I don't really care about the coverage on the GL -- it's the fact that an L or U *must* turn his head if the ball threatens the sideline behind him or the pylon that bothers me -- it essentially takes an official completely out of the play and takes him away from watching players even near to him.

I guess it depends on how you are taught and what the focus of the crew is. We often had the U at the GL when needed based on the kicker's ability. So it is not totally uncommon early to have two officials on the GL which I feel is more than enough in a 5 Man mechanic. Then the L is further down field as the BJ is on his side and he is around the 30 or deeper.

And maybe I am missing something, but you suggested that the BJ and the LJ would take the ball closer to the neutral zone on shorter kicks and get down field. If that is wrong please let me know, but I would think that would be a mistake as they usually see the first wave and all the wedge breaking that takes place often. I just know that this area is where cheap shots and head hunting takes place. I just do not want to take forward progress until the ball gets to us or follow the ball when blocks a players with a brick are going to be our main concern in that part of the field. If this was college I would agree with that mechanic a little more.

Peace

Rich Mon Feb 27, 2012 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 828199)
I guess it depends on how you are taught and what the focus of the crew is. We often had the U at the GL when needed based on the kicker's ability. So it is not totally uncommon early to have two officials on the GL which I feel is more than enough in a 5 Man mechanic. Then the L is further down field as the BJ is on his side and he is around the 30 or deeper.

And maybe I am missing something, but you suggested that the BJ and the LJ would take the ball closer to the neutral zone on shorter kicks and get down field. If that is wrong please let me know, but I would think that would be a mistake as they usually see the first wave and all the wedge breaking that takes place often. I just know that this area is where cheap shots and head hunting takes place. I just do not want to take forward progress until the ball gets to us or follow the ball when blocks a players with a brick are going to be our main concern in that part of the field. If this was college I would agree with that mechanic a little more.

Peace

No, I would have the L/U/R (whichever makes sense) take progress -- it means that the L/U/R will have to be mobile enough to trail the runner.

I think this comes full circle to the OP, though. With the new rules in place on running starts and blocking, I'd be happy putting 3 officials at the 40/50 and moving the R out to one of the pylons with the U on the other.

Let's face it, with 5 officials we're never going to have ideal KO coverage.

JRutledge Mon Feb 27, 2012 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 828218)
Let's face it, with 5 officials we're never going to have ideal KO coverage.

That is true.

Peace

jchamp Tue Feb 28, 2012 06:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 826826)
Why not analyze this issue in terms of what's likely to be missed, how often, and how severe the consequences? Seems to me the chance of missing a touchback that should've been called when someone reaches over the plane of the goal line for the ball so it can't be seen except by an official whose eye is in that plane whether the ball broke that plane is pretty small compared to calls that might be missed elsewhere on the field. The consequences in the touchback case might be substantial, but I don't know that they'd be greater on avg. than the consequences of other blown calls on a kickoff.

I have to agree with this sentiment. For the most part, one R standing on the goal line can pivot and clearly see if the ball crosses. One situation that threatens is the "catch and carry" into the end zone, and I'm sure there are others that can be. But taking one of your four remaining downfield officials and putting him on the goal line for this rather rare situation (which can still be remedied by a quick-witted R) asks for problems elsewhere.
As a chronic LJ/BJ, I would much rather have the help downfield. But, I trust my R to make a solid call and be able to cover that line. YMMV.

Rich Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamp (Post 828652)
I have to agree with this sentiment. For the most part, one R standing on the goal line can pivot and clearly see if the ball crosses. One situation that threatens is the "catch and carry" into the end zone, and I'm sure there are others that can be. But taking one of your four remaining downfield officials and putting him on the goal line for this rather rare situation (which can still be remedied by a quick-witted R) asks for problems elsewhere.
As a chronic LJ/BJ, I would much rather have the help downfield. But, I trust my R to make a solid call and be able to cover that line. YMMV.

Again, my reason for wanting the officials deep has *nothing* to do with the ball threatening the goal line. No reason to rehash those posts, though, they're still in this thread.

JRutledge Wed Feb 29, 2012 04:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 828788)
Again, my reason for wanting the officials deep has *nothing* to do with the ball threatening the goal line. No reason to rehash those posts, though, they're still in this thread.

I do get where you are coming from, but I just do not agree that is the best way to cover the field. We just disagree that is all and I think you put a lot of pressure on officials unnecessarily IMO. As I said before, if the change it I will adjusts. I just hope it is not a mandate but a suggestion.

Peace

Mike L Wed Feb 29, 2012 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 828218)
No, I would have the L/U/R (whichever makes sense) take progress -- it means that the L/U/R will have to be mobile enough to trail the runner.

I think this comes full circle to the OP, though. With the new rules in place on running starts and blocking, I'd be happy putting 3 officials at the 40/50 and moving the R out to one of the pylons with the U on the other.

Let's face it, with 5 officials we're never going to have ideal KO coverage.

We've been doing it that way for years now. R & U at the pylons, L at K, H at R, BJ in the middle behind K. R & U have progress up to the 30.

HLin NC Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:53am

We do it almost the same way as you Mike but flip the BJ and the U. The BJ is up around the G to the 5 yl. Not many HS kickers here in the mountains threaten the EZ unless they get a good roll.

HLin NC Mon Mar 12, 2012 08:01pm

reported

Brad Mon Mar 12, 2012 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 831588)
reported

Thanks! I've made some changes that have cut down on the spam quite a bit — looking at some long term solutions and working on getting info together for those that have volunteered to moderate (if anyone is interested, email me at [email protected])

Don't feel that you have to post "Reported" in the thread if you don't want to ... if multiple people report it, it's not a big deal. Either way is fine.

Robert Goodman Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 829083)
Not many HS kickers here in the mountains threaten the EZ unless they get a good roll.

Of course. It's hard to get much distance kicking up a steep slope, and going down it, it's hard to get under it, while on a side slope it's hard to hit it at all.

JaxRef13672 Tue Mar 13, 2012 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 826767)
That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

Most kicks may not get close to the goal line in your area but they certainly do in mine. 57% of all the kickoffs in my games this past year in Jacksonvile, Fl resulted in touchbacks. With the increasing leg strength of the HS kickers, I wouild like to see the touchback rule changed to be the same as the NCAA. With so many kicks going into the end zone, think R should have the ability to return the kick out of the end zone if he chooses.

Know this will never happen though with all of the recent discussion regarding elevated injury risk associated with KO returns.

HLin NC Thu Mar 15, 2012 08:01pm

Quote:

57% of all the kickoffs in my games
Who charts this stuff? Who really cares enough to check it?

In hotbeds of HS football and/or soccer, there might be the odd kicker that can boot it into the end zone but in most locales, the odds would be no where close to 60%.

The passing game has increased signicantly but NC isn't close to adding 6 or 7 man crews to officiate it.

Conjecture is fun to a point but I think I'll just wait to see the new mechanics manual and how my state/area responds.

JRutledge Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaxRef13672 (Post 831732)
Most kicks may not get close to the goal line in your area but they certainly do in mine. 57% of all the kickoffs in my games this past year in Jacksonvile, Fl resulted in touchbacks. With the increasing leg strength of the HS kickers, I wouild like to see the touchback rule changed to be the same as the NCAA. With so many kicks going into the end zone, think R should have the ability to return the kick out of the end zone if he chooses.

Know this will never happen though with all of the recent discussion regarding elevated injury risk associated with KO returns.

That seems really high and like asked by someone else, who the heck charts that stuff? I live in an area where soccer players sometimes go to football and that would not even be close to the percentage.

Peace

bcl1127 Fri Mar 16, 2012 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 832291)
That seems really high and like asked by someone else, who the heck charts that stuff? I live in an area where soccer players sometimes go to football and that would not even be close to the percentage.

Peace

Agreed I think we had 2 games last year in Chicagoland where we had a kicker who could reach the endzone, and then even in those games his % was less that 60%! Not something that is very common at all here.

bniu Fri Mar 23, 2012 09:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 826767)
That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

My high school's freshman kickers can often clear the end zone on kickoffs...Ironically, our varsity kicker one season could barely manage 40 yards...but we had a rule disallowing freshman playing varsity football.

HLin NC Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:06pm

Quote:

My high school's freshman kickers can often clear the end zone

And I once caught a fish THHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSS big:cool:


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