One of the things I am struggling with this year (only my second year) is coach management. In four games I have done at the JV level, I have thrown 2 flags for unsportsmanlike conduct by a coach. Once I was R, and once I was LM. Below is the game situation and I wonder if I was justified.

Before you read, I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions for dealing with coaches who are questioning calls or demandings that something be watched.

JV game last night with 4 man crew. Up until the 4th quarter of a close game, the head coach of the losing team was demanding that calls be made all night. I am the wingman on his side and was very polite in hearing his concerns. One of the things he had been harping on all night was clipping.

The the 4th Quarter is winding down with 2:30 left to go. (On my side, I am having to deal with the coach who is losing). The team winning is forced to punt on 4th down. On the punt, I watched as R1 clipped K1 on the return (and it was a long return). Coach for R1 was livid about the call saying "the other play just fell down and my guy ran into his back. That't not clipping." The penalty was administered and R1 took over for their series. After that call, that coach was standing right behind me talking about the call during the timeout for change of possession, and during the next two plays. I finally said, "Coach, I don't want to hear any more buzzing in my ear about that call!". His reply was "I was talking to one of my players".

After his team fumbled the ball on third down and the other team picked it up for a touchdown, the winning team called a timeout before the extra point. When the coach walked out onto the field, I was discussing the situation above with the ref so I knew how much I should take from the coach with the Referee (probably should have waited until after the game). As he is waling to his team, he yells "I was talking to my players". As he is walking off the field he yells, "that's terrible!!!" That's when I flagged him for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. His response, "I still get one more before I'm gone."

My opinion is that the field is mine. Don't come onto the field and express your dissatisfaction with my officiating and I won't go over to the sideline and express dissatisfaction with your coaching.

As an official, was this a necessary flag? Where do you as officials draw the line?

How would you have handled the situation?

I think you did the right thing if the coach had been on you all night then yes, but I do agree you should have discussed the situation after the ballgame was over because you know the coach is upset that his team is losing.

I agree with smoke but if the guy is harping on you all night, then get him off early. Then, he knows he's only got one more left for the rest of the game.

And if he's talking to his players and he's talking about me, then everyone in the stadium shouldn't be able to hear it.

Why is a 2nd year official wearing the white hat in the first place?

Anyway - try not to take the coach's comments personally. Turn a deaf ear as much as possible. If he's being loud enough for everyone in the stadium to hear him then stick him. But if you and he are the only ones who can hear it let it go.

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andy_Driver:
[B]Why is a 2nd year official wearing the white hat in the first place?

In the game in question, I was LJ. However, in the game where I was the white hat, there were only three of us for the game and the other two guys had less experience than I did. Sometimes, it is difficult to find referees for games in this area!

Why not? That is how they learn that position and how they understand the rules better. If it was not a Varsity game, I see no problem with that, as long as that person can handle themselves.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andy_Driver:
[B]Why is a 2nd year official wearing the white hat in the first place?

Hey - I don't necessarily have a problem with it. I guess if you're short of officials you do the best you can. In my area, however, I guess we have enough officials that inexperienced guys don't wear the white hat.

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Understand this, it comes with time. You just do not allow a coach to question your integrity, get personal with you or call you out of your name. Other than that, you try your best to listen and not talk and when the coach is finished you say OK and walk away and move on. This can be hard to do, but it can be done. Also if they ask you a question explain it the best way you know how. That is why your rules knowledge and study are important. If you are a wing you are going to have to explain many calls that you did not see. The more knowledge you have, the more confident you will appear, the less the coach(in most cases) will stay off your back and your partners. It just takes time. But if you do others sports it might take you a shorter time. I do 4 all together and I use things from each sport and bring them to football. All it is is handling people and knowing what to say and what not to. That is all!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikesears:
One of the things I am struggling with this year (only my second year) is coach management. In four games I have done at the JV level, I have thrown 2 flags for unsportsmanlike conduct by a coach. Once I was R, and once I was LM. Below is the game situation and I wonder if I was justified.

Before you read, I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions for dealing with coaches who are questioning calls or demandings that something be watched.

JV game last night with 4 man crew. Up until the 4th quarter of a close game, the head coach of the losing team was demanding that calls be made all night. I am the wingman on his side and was very polite in hearing his concerns. One of the things he had been harping on all night was clipping.

The the 4th Quarter is winding down with 2:30 left to go. (On my side, I am having to deal with the coach who is losing). The team winning is forced to punt on 4th down. On the punt, I watched as R1 clipped K1 on the return (and it was a long return). Coach for R1 was livid about the call saying "the other play just fell down and my guy ran into his back. That't not clipping." The penalty was administered and R1 took over for their series. After that call, that coach was standing right behind me talking about the call during the timeout for change of possession, and during the next two plays. I finally said, "Coach, I don't want to hear any more buzzing in my ear about that call!". His reply was "I was talking to one of my players".

After his team fumbled the ball on third down and the other team picked it up for a touchdown, the winning team called a timeout before the extra point. When the coach walked out onto the field, I was discussing the situation above with the ref so I knew how much I should take from the coach with the Referee (probably should have waited until after the game). As he is waling to his team, he yells "I was talking to my players". As he is walking off the field he yells, "that's terrible!!!" That's when I flagged him for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. His response, "I still get one more before I'm gone."

My opinion is that the field is mine. Don't come onto the field and express your dissatisfaction with my officiating and I won't go over to the sideline and express dissatisfaction with your coaching.

As an official, was this a necessary flag? Where do you as officials draw the line?

How would you have handled the situation?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there is a shortage or not, if they want to be the R in the game, experienced officials should let them. How else are they going to get better and learn that position. Actually the R is one of the easiest positions on the field. You just have to be confident, because 9 times out of 10 you are going to take the heat for the screw up. If a young official wants to do it, I let them, why not? At the lower levels you can still help them and tell them the enforcements, but it helps them understand the rules and enforcements better. If you just do the wings and the middle positions like U and BJ, you may not call very much but holding and PI. Even on the wings you do not call very much. But in the R, you have to administer all fouls and deterimine if they are live ball, dead ball fouls. Basic spot, previous spot fouls. When to put the ball ready for play. It is alot like basketball, there is nothing in the game you are not involved in, why not let them do it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andy_Driver:
Hey - I don't necessarily have a problem with it. I guess if you're short of officials you do the best you can. In my area, however, I guess we have enough officials that inexperienced guys don't wear the white hat.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, We all know it is part of the business. Firstly, have no rabbit ears, whatever he says to his players is his business. One thing I do, I have been a linesman for 8 years, is calmy hold out your hand as if to say "stop" and tell him that is enough. Restrict him to his box, coaches hate that because most officials do not enforce that rule heavily. Take some verbal abuse. But draw the line at profanity and character abuse. You will hear "that's terrible" alot in the next few years. Good Luck

How Much Crap Do You Take?
 

There's some great advice given on this subject. At eReferee.com, we have an excellent article written by Lee Jones (look in the football section)entitled "Communicating With Coaches." It gives some general guidelines, but the only way you'll come to know how much to take is to work as many games as you can with as many experienced officials as possible so you can learn this for yourself. It's a little different for all of us. I would advise you that the words, "That's terrible," are a long way short of, "You're terrible." However, given the circumstances as you described them, your flag was appropriate. You might have been better served to have thrown it in the first quarter when he first started getting on you than to wait until the game is decided and he has nothing to lose by getting the flag. All you walked off was half the distance on a point-after. He didn't learn a thing. Did you?

I've learned a great deal this year! This forum has been EXTREMELY helpful.

Thanks to everyone for you input!

Think you handled it correctly. I tend to let coaches vent as long as they don't get personal or question your integrity. Some coaches just like to jaw when they feel they have been wronged. Remember their job is to win. They want every call to go their way.

Hey, I think it is wonderful that you what to do the white hat. I am in my 2nd year of doing football, and I know that I didn't what to do the white hat this year cause I was not ready. If you are ready in your 2nd year go for it.

Secondly, as every official knows you don't and can't see everything or hear everything. I have to agree that you have to listen to a little bit of crap from the coach but that comes with the area of "work." Also you can just warn them first, then box, then flag.

I think you handled the situation well. One of the things I like to do is ask the coach if he would like to repeat what he just said. He will respond in one of two ways: 1)He'll then say that he was just talking to his team. or 2)He'll repeat it, at this time you would flag him if necessary. Coaches will say a lot of things before they think, this gives them the opportunity to think about what he is saying and if it is directed at you. Also remember, take as much as you can from a coach. He is feeding his family with his W/L record. You are out there for the enjoyment of being involved in the game.

"that's right, and here it is!"

Coaches deserve the utmost respect but when they continually disrespect you. I have often in the past been extremely lenient with coaches because I know the job is difficult. But so is ours.

Think you did the right thing when you told the coach you heard enough about that play. Then he still came on the field and was yelling disrespectfully. His response about one more was telling you he was still going to keep talking, time for him to go.

I like to think a disqualified coach dismisses himself. I had a coach yell out to my LJ one time, "you're all getting zeroes" (meaning our rating). The LJ tosses the flag. As I come over to find out why his flag was down the coach came over to listen.

I calmly informed the coach he was ejected and his response was surprise.

I retorted, "You don't want to be here with us zeroes."

It sounds like you put up with a little more than you should, but that isn't a criticism. At your level, I did that as well. Probably still do, in fact.

This is an automatic flag. It is essentially saying, "I have no respect for your authority."

Ed, you just about gave me heart failure. I see the first post in this thread and Mike Sears is talking about being a new official and I know I have been reading his posts for years. I think I must be losing my mind, then I see this is an eight year old post.

When the coach gets hot & heavy explain to him that you just saved a ton of money by switching your car insurance to GEICO... :eek:

Dear Blue, you're not the only one... :cool:

I was wondering about that Mike Sears has been posting here for years.

Blast from the past. Wow.

This is my fifth year and last week was the first time I'd ever thrown a 15 USC for a coach chirping (there have been other times I've let stuff go that was over the line and regretted it, but that didn't have bearing on this instance).

Chirping is annoying, but, fine, vent. But when you question my integrity or that of the crew, I'm not putting up with it. I got him in the first quarter and while one of his assistants, very sotto voce, was speaking about us the second quarter, there weren't many peeps out of them the second half.

I agree with Rut - you shouldn't have rabbit ears is one thing that was taught to me early on. But when they cross that line, nail 'em.

Coach management is something I need to work on, too. Because my nature is to rip a guy, and you can't do that.

One reason I loved being a back judge. Only we don't have them sub-varsity here. :)

You and I both. I thought there was something in that energy drink I had prior to my game tonight.

My big pet peeve at the peewee level is a coach who says, "I just want it called both ways." You've heard them. A few weeks ago I finally flagged a coach after I heard him say that 10 times. Incessantly saying that phrase, to me, implies I have no integrity.

Try this next time: "Coach, if I could get the other team to start committing as many fouls as your kids, we could make that happen!" :)

I'll let them vent, but once we've had another play I expect it to stop.

One of my challenges as a white hat is to ignore the sidelines. I've done that very well this year. Twice I've addressed the sidelines -- both times the coach kept repeating himself loudly and I figured the only way to handle it was to say something. So I raised my hand and said, "I heard you. That play's over. Move on," or something like that. Once I had to follow up with a stern "No more."

I did have an USC against a coach in a varsity game a few weeks ago, but he screamed a profanity and knew he had it coming (matter of fact multiple flags went flying on that one).

Watching the Lions/Bears game yesterday, I couldn't believe how much crap NFL wings have to take. And apparently, the coach has free reign to say whatever he wants, cause I lipread quite a few MFers directed at the officiating crew by the Lions' coach and the official pretty much pretended the coach wasn't there and never addressed him. Honestly, if that's what it takes to be an NFL official, I'm not sure it would ever be the gig for me.

I dont think there is any question you handled it well. As for the R being a young guy....I make them in my sub varsity games. That way they can develop a presence, an understanding of the rules and its a nice little day off of sorts from the WH. As for dealing with coaches, everyone struggles with it. Over time you will develop how much you want to take. Veterans know what to say. Always answer a direct question---and answer it in as few words as possible. On the warsity level I never talk to assistant coaches...and I rarely do much talking at a sub varsity game. The sideline warining is a nice tool to use -- but only if it will help with a situation. The other thing is just to concentrate on your job....remember you cant quote silience. Show no reaction and they will go about their business. Unfortunately, I have come to experience that most sub varsity coaches believe they are coaching for a championship ring that day.

RichMSN's post prompts this question. I had a HS varsity sideline a few weeks ago that it seemed the coaches were competing with each other as to how many F-bombs they could say or shout. Head coach and most of the assistants were perpetrators. It was almost like they didn't think they would be heard or respected if they didn't use one (or more) in each sentence. No flags becuase none were directed at an official. HS administrator(s) on the sideline -- had to hear most of these or at least no it was a habit with these coaches. HS games are supposed to be "an extension of the classroom." These were gutless administrators who compromised on decency in the schools because this is a "winning program." Is this common in your area or does your association expect you to police coaches' behavior with their players also?

I would think that the most any individual could drop would be 2. Not much of a contest if you ask me.

I would definitely deal with this. Eject if need be.

Had a first on Sunday. Youth game, probably enough said, 7-8 years olds in an instructional league where coaches are on the field, I know, lucky me.

Runner gets tackled high as tackler wraps arm around runner under the helmet. Runner lying on the ground complains and coach on the field hollers "face mask." I tell him there was no face mask but he needs to attend to his player. Another coach comes on the field to also attend to the player and also yells "face mask." Might think if the first coach got no satisfaction the second one would not.

After attending to the player second coach walks off with player to coaching box. As play resumes the second coach throws the player's helmet about 15-20 yards downfield. Then retrieves it and throws it back about 20 yards.

That is when I tossed him.

Few plays later player from opposing teams lands out of bounds. A "coach" starts yelling at him getting in his face. In shock, I did not throw a flag just admonished the coach.

Too bad the kids love playing football and cannot leave the "coaches" home. Of course, one "coach" will be home next week.

I am in no way suggesting that anyone go looking for trouble, and I understand coaching can be a very frustrating experience, but if, "the coaches were competing with each other as to how many F-bombs they could say or shout.", you need to call their attention to the simple fact they are behaving badly and advise them to stop.

First, because you don't want them to make complete fools out of themselves and alerting them to how bad they are sounding is an act of professional curtesy, and second (if need be) they are violating
NF 9.8.1.a, "Using profanity, insulting or vulgar language or gestures." (Note there is no mention as to whom the objectionable language is directed to).

F-bombs around here don't get warnings, they get penalized. Any sport.

I have two things to add that you may find serve you well in your career. First learn the difference between clipping and blocking in the back. They are different. Second, never have the attitude that it is "your" field. That sounds arrogant.

Being a first-year guy, I probably take much more than what I should. Probably because I'm not really sure where my "line" is yet, and whether or not a coach crosses it.

I had a youth game last weekend, where a coach was upset about a (I believe) DPI call against them called by the LJ across the field from me. I gave him an explanation, but he didn't like it. Then in the second half, his team was on defense and there was a possible block in the back committed by the offense on a sweep to my side. All I saw from the right corner of my eye was the defensive player falling down, but saw no contact so I couldn't throw a flag for it. Shortly after I hear "These guys must be blind today" (yeah, probably should've thrown it). However, I heard but didn't see the person say it, so I didn't flag it because it may not have been a coach. Although it probably was since all the fans were on the opposite side of the field. But since I did not see the act, and didn't know exactly which coach it was, I decided to keep the flag in my waist.

[QUOTE=JRutledge;5724]Why not? That is how they learn that position and how they understand the rules better. If it was not a Varsity game, I see no problem with that, as long as that person can handle themselves.

I have been a white hat since my second year, and have been in the position for 10 years.

Deciding to keep your flag in your waist, for someone suggesting you are visually challenged, may be one of the better decisions you made that game. As many have pointed out when someone questions your integrity, swears directly at you or makes a directly personal derogatory comment, a flag may well be appropriate.

You will find officiating a lot more enjoyable if you learn to ignore the stupid and silly comments, unless, and until, they become so consistent and repetitive that you cannot ignore them.

Personal, persistent, or profane.

That simple rule has saved me many times from wrong USC flags. And also reminded me to throw them at the right time too. ;)

i just got scheduled for my youth games this weekend, and was told if a coach opens his mouth about a call, flag, then if he does it again, flag again and eject. I have only worked this league once this year, and I guess the coaches are being a little rough on the officials this year, and the officials are letting them get away with it. He also told me if it a $500 fine + suspension if they are ejected so lets teach them a lesson.

Sort of an odd request from the scheduler but I guess he wants to cut the crap. We'll see what happens. Not sure why I am being told to do this, guess he must think I can deal with the follow up crap...

Holy jeebus.

$500?