Pulling the pile?

[bigjohn]

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

The rule is the rule as written in the rule book, you have no idea what the "spirit" of the rule is. No one was directly helping the runner, thus no flag, I would hope no official would throw a flag on this play as there is no reason for one.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

They've had a long time to say so in the rules, analogously to forced touching situations in relationship to the ball, but they haven't, so I assume they want to keep it legal. A defender turns his back to you in making the tackle just as you get there, or you work your way around in contact from his side to his back, then you can block him in the back, and that winds up xmitting force to the runner in this example, nothing you can do about it in the rules. I would say that if you approached from behind and the tackler already clearly had his back to you as you approached so that your initial contact was with his back, you should be flagged for that.

[bigjohn]

#2 and 32 are directly contacting the runner in the video I posted.
Like I said most officials won't call it. I watched the OHSAA state finals 2 years ago and saw it 5 times in one game where the FB came up and pushed the QB toward the goal line. No call, the next year I believe it was a POE.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

#2 and 32 are directly contacting the runner in the video I posted.
Like I said most officials won't call it. I watched the OHSAA state finals 2 years ago and saw it 5 times in one game where the FB came up and pushed the QB toward the goal line. No call, the next year I believe it was a POE.

You need you eyes checked, #2 is pushing a RED player who is between him and the runner, and #32 is not pushing at all, more like standing there watching with his hands out. shame on anyone who thinks this is helping the runner.

[bigjohn]

The big surge came from those not in direct contact but 32 and 2 both had a hand on the runner, pushing. that is all the rule says, not how hard.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

The big surge came from those not in direct contact but 32 and 2 both had a hand on the runner, pushing. that is all the rule says, not how hard.

I see what you see, but you might want to reread the exact words of the rule. This (your video) is not illegal either.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

#2 and 32 are directly contacting the runner in the video I posted.
Like I said most officials won't call it. I watched the OHSAA state finals 2 years ago and saw it 5 times in one game where the FB came up and pushed the QB toward the goal line. No call, the next year I believe it was a POE.

I don't doubt that in many "pushing the pile" situations there may very well be undetected "helping the runner" occuring. However, officials do not have the luxury of "suspecting" what may be going on, that many spectators enjoy.

For a field official, applying Penalties is restricted to only those rule violations that are directly and unequivocaly observed in their entirety, or perceived to have been observed.

When observed, Helping the Runner is a foul, if not directly observed it should not be called, and you should understand this foul, when a large group of players are involved is extremely difficult to observe.

[bigjohn]

An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

So if you as an official feel his forward progress isn't assisted it is not a foul? BS, that is what they are trying to do.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

So if you as an official feel his forward progress isn't assisted it is not a foul? BS, that is what they are trying to do.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

So if you as an official feel his forward progress isn't assisted it is not a foul? BS, that is what they are trying to do.

Last try here. not sure why I bother though.

what part of "push, pull or life THE RUNNER" is unclear?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

It is no such thing. People push "the pile" all the time. Surely you don't mean that if you can't get to the runner, you must back off and wait your turn...

The rule says you can't push THE RUNNER. (Like Reggie Bush was pushed in the ND-USC game a few years back). Pushing the pile is NOTHING. You can't get on the ballcarrier and just push him.