Substitution play

[voiceoflg]

I don't have the video yet. When I do, I will post it.

FED. 2nd & 10. After first down incomplete pass, the running back comes off the field and another player comes on. The quarterback looks at the player coming on and puts out his hands as if to say "what are you doing?" He then puts motions for the player to go back off the field. Only 11 are on the field for the offense at this point.

That player heads toward the sideline, but never steps OOB, stopping about a foot or two from the sideline. He turns to face the rest of the team and is up on the line, still in bounds. The ball is snapped and he streaks down the sideline. Pass is thrown to him, no one is covering, he catches it and scores on the 68 yard pass play.

Legal? In this game the officials allowed it without even conferring. I'm guessing the HC asked about it ahead of time, but I do not know that.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

I don't have the video yet. When I do, I will post it.

FED. 2nd & 10. After first down incomplete pass, the running back comes off the field and another player comes on. The quarterback looks at the player coming on and puts out his hands as if to say "what are you doing?" He then puts motions for the player to go back off the field. Only 11 are on the field for the offense at this point.

That player heads toward the sideline, but never steps OOB, stopping about a foot or two from the sideline. He turns to face the rest of the team and is up on the line, still in bounds. The ball is snapped and he streaks down the sideline. Pass is thrown to him, no one is covering, he catches it and scores on the 68 yard pass play.

Legal? In this game the officials allowed it without even conferring. I'm guessing the HC asked about it ahead of time, but I do not know that.

Some officials mess things up so bad it is embarrassing. Hopefully this video doesn't end up on youtube like so many of the wrong ball type plays.

This is an illegal participation foul. You would think at least one guy on the crew would have known this.

[tomes1978]

rule 9-6 art 4
...It is illegal participation:
d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute or pretended substitute to decieve oppenents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

or

9-9 art 5
Neither team shall commit any act which, in the opinion of the referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.

Also, was the player between the numbers after the ready for play?

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by tomes1978

Also, was the player between the numbers after the ready for play?

The way the initial description was made, there is also a possibility for illegal formation. The OP mentioned that the player was on the line and facing his team. That would fail to comply with the part of 2-32-9 which requires a lineman to face his opponent's goal line and have his shoulders approximately parallel to it. He would then not count as a lineman, and its possible his team only has six on the line.

If the QB doesn't signal to the sub that he shouldn't be on the field, and if the sub complies with the requirements for being a lineman and getting between the nines after the RFP, it sounds like a legal play. I haven't seen the video, either, so I'll defer my opinion on this case to a later time.

[Ia-Ref]

tomes1978 got it right - Illegal Participation - 9-6-4d.

This is the old "hide out" play.

[Berkut]

I really don't understand why there is always a question about whether plays of this type are legal.

They aren't. None of them are. You cannot use the substitution system as a means of deceiving the other team. I had this in a college game this week, and the crew actually had to go and argue about it pre-game before we could agree that they could not do it - which bothered me. This should not require any discussion.

If the intent of the players doing whatever it is they are doing is to cause the other team to think that the player in question is not someone they have to cover or account for because that player is a substitute or replaced, it is illegal.

Period.

There isn't ever any reason for a coach to ask if a play like this is legal. Either the players are doing completely normal substitutions, in which case there is no need to ask me about it, or they are doing something not normal in an effort to deceive in which case they are going to draw a flag.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

I don't have the video yet. When I do, I will post it.

FED. 2nd & 10. After first down incomplete pass, the running back comes off the field and another player comes on. The quarterback looks at the player coming on and puts out his hands as if to say "what are you doing?" He then puts motions for the player to go back off the field. Only 11 are on the field for the offense at this point.

That player heads toward the sideline, but never steps OOB, stopping about a foot or two from the sideline. He turns to face the rest of the team and is up on the line, still in bounds. The ball is snapped and he streaks down the sideline. Pass is thrown to him, no one is covering, he catches it and scores on the 68 yard pass play.

Legal? In this game the officials allowed it without even conferring. I'm guessing the HC asked about it ahead of time, but I do not know that.

CANADIAN RULING:

Classic sleeper play. Flag as IS, and let the play go. Had it in a college game 3 years ago. 10 yards from PLS, repeat the down.