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McMac Fri Oct 21, 2011 09:43pm

Illegal kick
 
I know per 9-7-1 that an illegal kick is a 15 yard penalty penalized from the basic spot.

Situation: 4th down (don't remember distance) at A 30, snap goes over punter's head and travels down to inside the 5 (center really got a lot on it), definitely in the Field of Play , when the punter illegally kicks it out of the end zone. R throws flag for illegal kick, but doesn't B (not R, since there was no legal kick) have options here that should be discussed with them?

In my head, option A) decline the penalty, take the safety. Option B) take the penalty, half the distance to the goal, replay 4th down. The WH never spoke with a B captain about this. Is this because it is assumed that they will decline the penalty and take the points or should the WH discuss the options with them?

If I am totally wrong, just tell me so I know better for when I am working my games.

Robert Goodman Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMac (Post 795274)
In my head, option A) decline the penalty, take the safety. Option B) take the penalty, half the distance to the goal, replay 4th down. The WH never spoke with a B captain about this. Is this because it is assumed that they will decline the penalty and take the points or should the WH discuss the options with them?

It does seem silly to repeat a down on which A could easily produce a safety anyway if they want to. The only way you don't wind up with a safety is if neither team wants one, which is a curious situation.

McMac Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 795276)
It does seem silly to repeat a down on which A could easily produce a safety anyway if they want to. The only way you don't wind up with a safety is if neither team wants one, which is a curious situation.

I know it may be silly to not take the points, but am I right in my thinking that B has both of those options available if they want it?

BktBallRef Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMac (Post 795277)
I know it may be silly to not take the points, but am I right in my thinking that B has both of those options available if they want it?

Yes, you're correct. It's either a safety or the penalty is assessed from the spot of the foul, half the distance to the goal line.

There could be situations where B would rather have the penalty assessed than take the safety.

mbyron Sat Oct 22, 2011 09:15am

B has options, but if I'm white hat I'll generally assume they want the safety.

If it's near the end of the game and they need a TD to win, I would ask the coach whether he wanted the safety and A's free kick from the 20 or the penalty and replay 4th down from the 2.5 YL.

Theisey Sat Oct 22, 2011 03:56pm

You'll never be in the wrong to ask the offended team what they want do do.
Instruct your wing officials to let the coach know, after all they should also know what the choice could be.

Texas Aggie Sat Oct 22, 2011 04:01pm

NCAA: this is not an illegal kick, but illegally kicking the ball. Its a ten yard penalty with a loss of down, so Team B has the option of taking the safety or accepting the penalty and putting the ball in play inside the 5, 1/10.

mbyron Sat Oct 22, 2011 06:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey (Post 795335)
You'll never be in the wrong to ask the offended team what they want do do.
Instruct your wing officials to let the coach know, after all they should also know what the choice could be.

Actually, in Ohio you WILL be wrong to ask the offended team. 98% of the time it's obvious, and Ohio wants crews to speed up penalty enforcement by enforcing the obvious. We are to ask only for the 2% where there's a real choice.

Robert Goodman Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 795278)
Yes, you're correct. It's either a safety or the penalty is assessed from the spot of the foul, half the distance to the goal line.

There could be situations where B would rather have the penalty assessed than take the safety.

Describe one, please.

JugglingReferee Sun Oct 23, 2011 07:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas aggie (Post 795336)
ncaa: This is not an illegal kick, but illegally kicking the ball. Its a ten yard penalty with a loss of down, so team b has the option of taking the safety or accepting the penalty and putting the ball in play inside the 5, 1/g.

ftfy

Theisey Sun Oct 23, 2011 08:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 795354)
Actually, in Ohio you WILL be wrong to ask the offended team. 98% of the time it's obvious, and Ohio wants crews to speed up penalty enforcement by enforcing the obvious. We are to ask only for the 2% where there's a real choice.

What's the rush? About all you are going to save is about 10 seconds.

That being said... when in Rome do what the Romans do. If that's what OH wants so be it. I'll ask and I'll not be wrong especially if they want a re-kick.


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