4th and 5+/-inches then Def. Encroachment

[Snake~eyes]

It's 4th and 5 + or - inches, defense encroaches, ball/LTG are not on a line/tick. What do you do? How do you make this look good?

[Welpe]

If the HL did his job properly, then there should be a piece of tape or zip tie on the chains at 5 yards. He should know when the ball is spotted near that point on the previous down and if the ball was behind or beyond that point. If behind, then it is still 4th down, if beyond then it's 1st down and the chains are moving.

[McMac]

Had this happen on a 3rd and 5 (plus a few inches). Told the WH, U moved the ball, spotted it and WH called it a first down. What do you do then?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by McMac

Had this happen on a 3rd and 5 (plus a few inches). Told the WH, U moved the ball, spotted it and WH called it a first down. What do you do then?

You communicate before the foul even occurs so that doesn't happen.

We communicate before the ready for play either by signal or verbally...thumbs up means the box is past the tape, thumbs down means the box is behind the tape....or "5 gets us 1!"

[Jim S]

Communications, communications, communications..... That sort of thing should NEVER happen!

[McMac]

I did tell our WH, I ran out to the center of the field, told him we were behind the tape. U marked it off, WH looked down at the stake and said 1st down.

[Snake~eyes]

I figured you'd guys use the "tape" which I can understand that, so I now present Situation Bravo:

4th and 10 from A20 +/- inches, A1 runs for a TD, holding called at A30 +/- inches. How do you handle that? Again LTG/flag are not on a yardline/tick. Do you just guess? Do you measure (please don't tell me this)?

[ump33]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You communicate before the foul even occurs so that doesn't happen.

We communicate before the ready for play either by signal or verbally...thumbs up means the box is past the tape, thumbs down means the box is behind the tape....or "5 gets us 1!"

In addition to what BkBallRef said, I ask the HL to set the Box at the appropriate spot. If we started an inch or two behind the tape, he sets the Box an inch or two behind the Line to Gain. Likewise, if we started an inch or two beyond the tape, he sets the Box an inch or two beyond the Line to Gain.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes

I figured you'd guys use the "tape" which I can understand that, so I now present Situation Bravo:

4th and 10 from A20 +/- inches, A1 runs for a TD, holding called at A30 +/- inches. How do you handle that? Again LTG/flag are not on a yardline/tick. Do you just guess? Do you measure (please don't tell me this)?

Before enforcing the penalty, figure out where the ball will be placed before marking off the penalty. On a well marked field, you should be able to figure out if it's going to be a 1st down before you mark off the penalty. If it's that close or the field is not well marked, then I'd think you have to measure. I guess you could use the chains to mark off the 10 yards if the field is really poorly marked since you'll have the clip to reset them but that seems like a last ditch effort to me.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

If the HL did his job properly, then there should be a piece of tape or zip tie on the chains at 5 yards. He should know when the ball is spotted near that point on the previous down and if the ball was behind or beyond that point. If behind, then it is still 4th down, if beyond then it's 1st down and the chains are moving.

This is among the best advice that a HL can do. If the downsbox is a carded official, I even have him be responsible for telling me if it's close to that tape or not - within half a yard. If the downsbox is a volunteer, then I manage the tape noticing myself.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

This is among the best advice that a HL can do. If the downsbox is a carded official, I even have him be responsible for telling me if it's close to that tape or not - within half a yard. If the downsbox is a volunteer, then I manage the tape noticing myself.

The Canadian mechanic is to report to the R all pertinent information which includes this type of information. It even includes info such as how the play ended. We don't say "offside 21 defence". We do say: "offside, 21 defence. The play resulted in an interception. The offence had less than 5 yards to go."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes

I figured you'd guys use the "tape" which I can understand that, so I now present Situation Bravo:

4th and 10 from A20 +/- inches, A1 runs for a TD, holding called at A30 +/- inches. How do you handle that? Again LTG/flag are not on a yardline/tick. Do you just guess? Do you measure (please don't tell me this)?

Measure what? Walk it off, place the ball, it's 4th and 10 again. Place your down marker, and then YOU know if the next play needs more or less than 10 - just like you did on the previous play.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Measure what? Walk it off, place the ball, it's 4th and 10 again. Place your down marker, and then YOU know if the next play needs more or less than 10 - just like you did on the previous play.

I'm guessing he meant holding was called at the A40 -- in other words after the mark-off it would be close to a first down.

No, I'm not using the chains. I'm going to eye up the penalty yardage along with the umpire and we're going to decide if it's a first down or not and make sure the ball's spotted clearly short or clearly ahead of the line-to-gain.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by richmsn

i'm guessing he meant holding was called at the a40 -- in other words after the mark-off it would be close to a first down.

No, i'm not using the chains. I'm going to eye up the penalty yardage along with the umpire and we're going to decide if it's a first down or not and make sure the ball's spotted clearly short or clearly ahead of the line-to-gain.

+1

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm guessing he meant holding was called at the A40 -- in other words after the mark-off it would be close to a first down.

No, I'm not using the chains. I'm going to eye up the penalty yardage along with the umpire and we're going to decide if it's a first down or not and make sure the ball's spotted clearly short or clearly ahead of the line-to-gain.

If he meant the 40, I agree.