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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 09:56am
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We make sure we have tape on the chain pregame. Then during the game, our HL makes the decision after the ready. If he points his thumbs together (tip to tip) then we have less than 5 yds. If he places the edges of his hands together (thumbs pointing in opposite directions) we are outside the tape. We know before the snap if we're inside or outside the tape. If you're on field turf you should NEVER have to guess. Place the ball on a yard line and you'll never have to measure.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I'm guessing he meant holding was called at the A40 -- in other words after the mark-off it would be close to a first down.

No, I'm not using the chains. I'm going to eye up the penalty yardage along with the umpire and we're going to decide if it's a first down or not and make sure the ball's spotted clearly short or clearly ahead of the line-to-gain.
Yes, meant A40. I agree with you and this is what I would do. Curious to see what others would do since this came up in a discussion.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 12:34pm
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You tape the middle of the chain for a reason. If the downbox is past the tape - it will be a first down. If it's before the tape - the down remains the same.

If you have to - measure it as we did once this year. Just bring the chains out as you normally would do - and then look to see the if the ball is beyond the tape. If not, count the links (or otherwise determine how far the ball will be from the stake), move the stakes to the hash, and place the ball at the right distance from the stake.

Best way to make it look good is to make it look like you know what you're doing.
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 12:50pm
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Originally Posted by kdf5 View Post
Place the ball on a yard line and you'll never have to measure.
Ugh. This again?
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Ugh. This again?
I guess you're right. I only see all NFL and NCAA crews doing it. What do they know?
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 02:34pm
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Originally Posted by kdf5 View Post
I guess you're right. I only see all NFL and NCAA crews doing it. What do they know?
I believe that's only for the beginning of drives...
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I believe that's only for the beginning of drives...
You can get it done the easiest on change of possessions and long gains for first downs. Generally you can usually get it on a first down outside the red zone too. If you can find a way, do it. It makes life a lot easier.
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 03:37pm
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Originally Posted by kdf5 View Post
I guess you're right. I only see all NFL and NCAA crews doing it. What do they know?
LOL. OK, coach. (PS ... look again, both Saturday and Sunday ... are you really trying to tell us, in today's day and age of instant replay and inches, that NFL referees spot the ball on the lines when the play didn't end there? Frankly that's insane. Please... watch again).
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 03:40pm
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Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
You can get it done the easiest on change of possessions and long gains for first downs. Generally you can usually get it on a first down outside the red zone too. If you can find a way, do it. It makes life a lot easier.
Don't get me wrong... crappy field on a Tuesday, junior high kids manning the sticks... I'm aiming for a line when possible too.

But JV, Varsity, NCAA, NFL - no way. AT MOST, on a COP.
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Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 03:47pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
LOL. OK, coach. (PS ... look again, both Saturday and Sunday ... are you really trying to tell us, in today's day and age of instant replay and inches, that NFL referees spot the ball on the lines when the play didn't end there? Frankly that's insane. Please... watch again).
I don't know what you watch but I rarely see a crew NOT spot a ball off a yard line.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 03:55pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I believe that's only for the beginning of drives...
This is correct (at least for the Pac-12). I've done the chains at my alma mater for years. The HL gives us the same briefing every week.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 12, 2011, 10:36pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Don't get me wrong... crappy field on a Tuesday, junior high kids manning the sticks... I'm aiming for a line when possible too.

But JV, Varsity, NCAA, NFL - no way. AT MOST, on a COP.
This is probably the #1 suggestion I've received from Umpires at the D1 and NFL levels. If at all possible on all new series (not just COP), start on a line. In very few instances does spotting the ball a couple inches forward or backward make a difference. Your wings can help a lot by marking their spot on a line.
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Old Thu Oct 13, 2011, 09:08am
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Originally Posted by kdf5 View Post
I guess you're right. I only see all NFL and NCAA crews doing it. What do they know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
I believe that's only for the beginning of drives...
APG is correct. The NFL definitely does not do this on scrimmage plays. There is much evidence that they do it on kicking plays with changes of possession.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 13, 2011, 09:12am
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Originally Posted by kdf5 View Post
I don't know what you watch but I rarely see a crew NOT spot a ball off a yard line.
Watch again... with the exception of the very first play of a drive, you're wrong.
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Old Thu Oct 13, 2011, 09:49am
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
APG is correct. The NFL definitely does not do this on scrimmage plays. There is much evidence that they do it on kicking plays with changes of possession.
So the NFL umpires that have said to do it whenever possible on the start of a new series were....making things up? Smoking crack? All of the above?
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