Scrimmage Kick (FG) exception

[Reffing Rev.]

This was a first for me...

A lines up for a field goal. A1 knee on the ground in position to receive the snap and A2 in position to kick. The snapper mistakenly snaps the ball to the kicker who essentially "sets" (volleyball) the ball to the holder who catches the ball with his knee still on the ground and then rises and rolls right and throws a pass to A8 who catches the ball in the end zone and is then tackled by the face mask.

After you wipe the "what just happened" look off your face, sort it out...I'll chime in later with what I did.

[mbyron]

Recovering a muffed snap with the knee still on the ground is legal and the ball is live (4-2-2 EXCEPTION 1). The holder may rise and throw a pass, so the score is good. Dead ball FM foul can be enforced on the try or the kickoff.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Recovering a muffed snap with the knee still on the ground is legal and the ball is live (4-2-2 EXCEPTION 1). The holder may rise and throw a pass, so the score is good. Dead ball FM foul can be enforced on the try or the kickoff.

I don't believe this is a muff... I believe kicker's actions constitute an illegal bat ... or if he caught and threw it (judgement being on how long it was in K's hands), it's a pass ... to a receiver who is already on the ground. Play over.

[referee20]

Not seeing the play, this could be a forward pass from the kicker to the holder

[BIG UMP]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I don't believe this is a muff... I believe kicker's actions constitute an illegal bat ... or if he caught and threw it (judgement being on how long it was in K's hands), it's a pass ... to a receiver who is already on the ground. Play over.

I agree with Mike. We either have offsetting fouls or one deadball PF.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by BIG UMP

I agree with Mike. We either have offsetting fouls or one deadball PF.

If you are ruling illegal bat, shouldn't you have one live ball foul and one dead ball foul, enforcing them in order of occurrence?

I don't believe we can combine a live ball foul and a dead ball foul for a double foul. 10.2.5

[PA-28-181]

A lines up for a field goal. A1 knee on the ground in position to receive the snap and A2 in position to kick. The snapper mistakenly

snaps the ball to the kicker who essentially "sets" (volleyball) the ball to the holder
9-7-ART. 3 . . . Any pass in flight may be batted in any direction, by an eligible
receiver unless it is a backward pass batted forward by the passing team.

who catches the ball with his knee still on the ground and then rises and rolls right and throws a pass to A8 who catches the ball in the and zone AND is then tackled by the face mask.

Dead ball foul 9-4-ART. 3 . . . No player or nonplayer shall:h. Grasp an opponent’s face mask, any edge of a helmet opening or the chin
strap.

Mike is right, one live one dead enforce in the order of occurrence

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I don't believe this is a muff... I believe kicker's actions constitute an illegal bat ... or if he caught and threw it (judgement being on how long it was in K's hands), it's a pass ... to a receiver who is already on the ground. Play over.

Why is the play over? He's still placing the ball for an ostensible kick.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why is the play over? He's still placing the ball for an ostensible kick.

He's placing a dead ball if it's a pass from the kicker.

[Forksref]

Wow, that would have to be a pretty lucky bat to end up in the holder's hand. Of course you would have to be there, but it sounds like a completed pass to the holder who is on the ground. End of play.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

He's placing a dead ball if it's a pass from the kicker.

Where does it say the place kick holder ceases to be a place kick holder if he obtains possession by unusual means? If he was so positioned at the snap, and while he's placing the ball there's someone in position ostensibly to kick it, the ball remains live.

Didn't we discuss here a year ago or so a situation in which a place kick is blocked and the holder obtains possession and tees the ball up again while the kicker has reloaded?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

The snapper mistakenly snaps the ball to the kicker...

Do you truly believe it was a mistake?

[JRutledge]

Sounds like it was a play on purpose.

Peace

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Recovering a muffed snap with the knee still on the ground is legal and the ball is live (4-2-2 EXCEPTION 1). The holder may rise and throw a pass, so the score is good. Dead ball FM foul can be enforced on the try or the kickoff.

Live ball llegal batting on A2 (9-7-3). Dead ball PF facemask on B (9-4-3 h). Enforce both. Same down. Same distance.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe

Live ball llegal batting on A2 (9-7-3). Dead ball PF facemask on B (9-4-3 h). Enforce both. Same down. Same distance.

Good thinking: I couldn't tell from the OP whether the kicker's contact with the ball was intentional, but if it was that would be an illegal bat.

If you're going to enforce both, you'll end up at the same spot only if the illegal batting takes the ball outside the 30YL. Otherwise, the FM penalty will be enforced half the distance.