Carry over penalty??

[wyo-referee]

4th down and ball is snapped over punters head into endzone, punter turns and just kicks ball out of endzone. We flag him for illegal kick in the endzone. I know it's a safety no matter what, but would this be a carry over penalty to the free kick?

[HLin NC]

no

[jTheUmp]

Take a look at 9-5-1 (FED) and see what types of fouls have "special enforcement rules".

[Forksref]

Why is this an illegal kick?

[wyo-referee]

I ruled it wasn't a carry-over penalty but a couple guys on the crew thought i got it wrong.
FORKSREF--I ruled it an illegal kick because a punt is a ball that is dropped and kicked BEFORE it hits the ground and for it to be a place-kick, which is a ball sitting on the ground it must be controlled or on a tee. This play doesn't meet either of those requirements.

[Rich]

Accepted or declined, the play is a safety since the illegal kick was in the end zone. That's the only penalty here. Think of it the same as a hold in the end zone by A.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by wyo-referee

4th down and ball is snapped over punters head into endzone, punter turns and just kicks ball out of endzone. We flag him for illegal kick in the endzone. I know it's a safety no matter what, but would this be a carry over penalty to the free kick?

CANADIAN RULING:

Legal. Safety.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by wyo-referee

I ruled it wasn't a carry-over penalty but a couple guys on the crew thought i got it wrong.
FORKSREF--I ruled it an illegal kick because a punt is a ball that is dropped and kicked BEFORE it hits the ground and for it to be a place-kick, which is a ball sitting on the ground it must be controlled or on a tee. This play doesn't meet either of those requirements.

Sorry, I couldn't tell from the original post that the ball was on the ground when it was kicked.

[Welpe]

Any time an accepted penalty results in a safety, that is the end of the enforcement. There is no yardage mark off along with the safety.

[MD Longhorn]

Think of it this way... what is the result of the play? Ball out of K's EZ is a safety. OK... what is the result of the penalty? Penalty in the EZ - safety. The safety IS the penalty enforcement. (If this is confusing... say the illegal kick went forward and OOB at the 5 - result of the play is the ball at the 5, result of the penalty enforcement - safety)

In your case, you simply have a safety regardless of acceptance of the penalty or not. Additional yardage wouldn't make sense. (Consider this like a hold in the EZ - ruling is a safety... not a safety plus some yards on the freekick, right?)

[Forksref]

I had this exact play in a game 2 years ago.

By rule:
1. Ball kicked out of EZ = Safety
2. Penalty for fouls by A in the EZ = Safety

No yardage penalty in #2. Make your safety signal and get the teams ready for a free kick by A at their 20.

[JasonTX]

Would you guys extend a period if this was the last timed down of the period? Extend it for the free kick since the penalty is being accepted.

It would not be extended in NCAA because penalties that include a loss of down do not extend the period, but just curious about Fed Rules.

[jTheUmp]

Yes, if the penalty was accepted, we would have to have an untimed down. (3-3-4-b-5).

However, I'd be quite tempted to go with the "obvious choice" of declining the penalty and taking result of the play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Yes, if the penalty was accepted, we would have to have an untimed down. (3-3-4-b-5).

However, I'd be quite tempted to go with the "obvious choice" of declining the penalty and taking result of the play.

Wouldn't that be the obvious NON choice? I think the offended party here is often going to want a shot at the return.

[jTheUmp]

Well, yeah.... I was banking on the coaches not knowing that rule so that I wouldn't have to deal with explaining the choice to the coaches, explaining the enforcement to the Team A coach who will undoubtedly think that we're "screwing his team over", giving the teams their 1-minute break following the score, setting up the free kick, administering the free kick, and then and only then switching sides of the field to start the next quarter.

I was trying to condense that all down into one semi-sarcastic smiley.

And Team B might not want to take the untimed down in some situations (wind advantage to making Team A kick off at the other end of the field, et al).