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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 15, 2011, 08:37pm
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BJ Duties - Muff etc

1st BJ game have a couple of questions:

Question 1
On a Punt R muff's (bobbles) it at his own 5, it rolls in end zone which R recovers.
1) Bag it at the 5, if so does it matter what color (we have a white and blue)?
2) Blow it dead when R recover (they can't advance muff)?
3) Safety?

Question 2
Is it still a muff if it just bounces of any R beyond the NZ, can R or K advance it then?

Question 2
Muffs can not be advanced by either K or R if past the neutral zone?

Question 3
Bag all Punts (again does color matter)?

Thanks....
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 15, 2011, 08:56pm
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Question 1:
Once the ball rolls into the endzone on a kick, the ball is dead and a touchback. It is not necessary to bag the spot of touching by R but my crew does, just to let everyone know that R touched the ball.

Question 2:
If it's beyond the NZ, R is the only one who can advance it, but K can recover. Once K gains possession, the ball is dead.

Question 3:
Muffs can be advanced by R but not K. Once K gains possession, the ball is dead.

Question 4:
Not sure, because we don't use different colors.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 15, 2011, 10:25pm
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Mikey, don't forget that ANY kick going into R's end zone is ALWAYS a touchback.

A kick remains a kick u ntil it is possessed or becomes dead by rule.

R touching or muffing a kick doesn't end the kick. So it's still a touchback when the muffed kick crosses the goal line plane.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 15, 2011, 11:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyS View Post
1st BJ game have a couple of questions:

Question 1
On a Punt R muff's (bobbles) it at his own 5, it rolls in end zone which R recovers.
1) Bag it at the 5, if so does it matter what color (we have a white and blue)?
2) Blow it dead when R recover (they can't advance muff)?
3) Safety?

Question 2
Is it still a muff if it just bounces of any R beyond the NZ, can R or K advance it then?

Question 2
Muffs can not be advanced by either K or R if past the neutral zone?

Question 3
Bag all Punts (again does color matter)?

Thanks....
Good luck! It sounds like most of your rule knowledge so far comes from TV announcers. The sooner you learn they don't know what they are talking about the better you'll do. Asking questions here will help a lot! KS_Blue answered your questions very well.
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Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 07:32am
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Simply put: If R never gains possession, K can never advance.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 07:56am
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I have 2 tips:
1. Memorize rule 6. On our crews BJ is responsible for any questions regarding rule 6.
2. Learn what the bean bags are for, which is in the mechanics manual. If your state has a mechanic for bagging the end of a kick using white or blue, use that one. Otherwise, it's up to you: but you should use the same one every time for the end of the kick, and the other for the end of the run.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyS View Post
1st BJ game have a couple of questions:

Question 1
On a Punt R muff's (bobbles) it at his own 5, it rolls in end zone which R recovers.
1) Bag it at the 5, if so does it matter what color (we have a white and blue)?
What are you bagging this spot for at all... there is no need to know this spot.
Quote:
2) Blow it dead when R recover (they can't advance muff)?
Meh, what? New rule? Why can't R advance a muff? (However on THIS play, when the muffed punt (which is still, therefore, a punt) rolls into the EZ, you have a dead ball and a touchback.
Quote:
3) Safety?
Egads, why?
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Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
What are you bagging this spot for at all... there is no need to know this spot.
Meh, what? New rule? Why can't R advance a muff? (However on THIS play, when the muffed punt (which is still, therefore, a punt) rolls into the EZ, you have a dead ball and a touchback.
Egads, why?
I'm assuming he thought R added a new force putting the ball into the EZ and subsequent safety if downed there......(?)

We all know that ball is dead with TB the second it breaks the plane of the GL....or we all do now : )

I would read up long and hard on your mechanics with handling Fair Catch responsibilities also....better to be over prepared at this stage for anything.

Good luck.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
Simply put: If R never gains possession, K can never advance.
Simply put: that's incorrect.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 01:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Simply put: that's incorrect.
OK, I assumed the kick was past the LOS, since OP asked about BJ duties.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 01:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
OK, I assumed the kick was past the LOS, since OP asked about BJ duties.
It's not even true for kicks that go beyond the neutral zone, since it matters where it's recovered not where it goes.

Sorry, but it's a peeve of mine when people use oversimplified "rules" that can lead into error.

Is the correct rule so hard to remember? The only kick K can advance is a scrimmage kick that they recover behind the neutral zone.
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Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 02:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
It's not even true for kicks that go beyond the neutral zone, since it matters where it's recovered not where it goes.

Sorry, but it's a peeve of mine when people use oversimplified "rules" that can lead into error.

Is the correct rule so hard to remember? The only kick K can advance is a scrimmage kick that they recover behind the neutral zone.
I understand where you're coming from, but a BJ is never going to rule on that.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 16, 2011, 02:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
I understand where you're coming from, but a BJ is never going to rule on that.
Slow learner should NEVER say never... However, no matter what your position on the field, you'd better know all the rules and not just the ones you think you are likely to rule on. I was BJ my first varsity season and it was not any longer than the SECOND game that I had to work one at HL due to emergency.

I suspect that you DO know the rules... but remember where you are. You're replying to someone you don't know (who, in fact, has a whopping 1 post). You post your little generalization there, and Newbie "LEARNS" your rule of thumb. Then blows his whistle one day when your rule of thumb is dead wrong because suddenly he's not at BJ, he's at HL.

mb's point is important - the rule that applies here is easy ... simplifying something that is already simple is not necessary, especially at the cost of actually not ALWAYS being correct.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 18, 2011, 12:15am
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Definitions!

Learn when a kick ends: when possessed or when the ball becomes dead.

I reiterate this definition many times when working with new officials. That muff didn't end the kick and therefore if it went into R's endzone it is a touchback.
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Old Sun Sep 18, 2011, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
I understand where you're coming from, but a BJ is never going to rule on that.
I keep talking about the rules, and you keep talking about the BJ.

As others have pointed out, everyone needs to know the rules. As a general statement, it is false that K can never advance a kick that is untouched by R. It matters not at all that the BJ will not rule on that.
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