THE PLAY

QB takes the snap. Runing Back(RB) runs **IN FRONT** of him and the QB hands it off to the RB who, again , is infront of him. Th RB than drops back an throws a completed pass.

QUESTION:

Is this a legal foward pass by the Running Back. He was behind the line of scrimmage, but I consider the hand off to the first and only foward pass since th QB handed it off to the RB who was directly in front of him.

My inital call was illegal foward pass, but I was overruld by a league offical.
WHAT'S THE CORRECT CALL?

Yes this is a legal pass under NF rules. I don't have my rule book handy so I can't give you the proper rule number. I don't know the NCAA rule on this.

If using NFHS rules , this is a legal play as long as the hand-off and pass were both behind A's LOS . Not real sure about NCAA but I believe this is also legal using that code

NCAA: legal.
By defnition, handing the ball is a transfer of possession from one player to another without throwing, fumbling or kicking...

So, since by definition, the QB did not pass the ball, the RB's pass is the one and only forward pass during the play.

Under NF rules, even if the exchange was a forward pass, the play would still be legal. You may have any number of forward passes, as long as each one occurs behind the NZ.

picky picky picky !
 

and there's been no change of possession (just being my anal self 8^)

NHFS: Yes. Fact is, if the QB had gone from a shotgun, thrown a forward pass that was terminated two yards BEHIND the line of scrimmage, and then received a return flea-flicker back, the QB could then toss a long bomb to a slot on a fly pattern.

A little different spin...
 

Same play plus... After receiving the handoff from the QB (A1), the RB (A2) throws a legal forward pass downfield to A3.

A3 catches the ball and to avoid tacklers, runs laterally across the field. As he approaches the sideline and is initially hit, he hands the ball forward to A4 who is in front of him due to a poor block on B24. A3 does this to avoid ending the play and avoid going out of bounds. A4 runs the ball into the end zone for a touchdown.

Anything??

Forward Handing
 

This would be defined as forward handing (signal 35, same signal as illegal forward pass) resulting in a 5 yard penalty from the end of the run and a loss of down. Of course, if the legal part of the play resulted in a 1st down, we would only enforce the 5 yd. penalty.

Tom, last sentence needs clarification...
 

Tom...I think I know what you're saying, but we need to be sensitive to folks who might misinterpret what you've said. If after assessing the five yard penalty, Team A is still beyond the line to gain, then you're correct: the loss of down is not applicable. However, if after assessing the five yards, Team A is still behind the line to gain, you do indeed assess the loss of down as well, regardless of whether or not the legal part of A's advance was beyond the line to gain. For example, <b>PLAY:</b> A, 3-10 from midfield. A10 advances to B's 38 where he hands the ball forward to A20. <b>RULING:</b> A's ball 4-3 from B's 43.

Even though the "legal" part of the play did bring the ball beyond the line to gain, you still need to assess the LOD since the enforcement of the 5 yard penalty brought the ball back behind the line to gain. If the legal advance had been to B's 20, then the LOD would be immaterial since even after the yardage assessment, A would still be in possession beyond the LTG. Agreed??

It's legal along as it was handed to back or teammate who was on the end of his line at the snap and was not the snapper or adjacent to the snapper and behind the LOS. Or a lineman who clearly turned to face his goal line and one yard behind the LOS.

The handing to a back or man on the end of the line etc etc is valid for handing in or behind the neutral zone. Once he is beyond it, all that stuff goes away and the play is governed by just no forward handing to anybody, no matter where they lined up originally. He can hand it backward to anybody behind or beyond the neutral zone, though. Except me.

I've had kids try and do that, believe it or not. Running back picked up a fumble, and tried to give to me, thinking the play was over.