Take a look at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/07/sp...ll/07SAND.html

Good argument for former football players turned announcers to announce and not state the rules.

Can't read it Ed without registering. Can you cut and paste (giving the auhtor/publication credit of course)?

And go directly to jail!!!
 

I read their Rights and Permissions FAQ page and felt guilty even reading the original article!!

Registering is free... and it takes only a minute!!!

Something I read
 

I know this is off the subject kinda, but I wanted to post this. Read This
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colum...sti-refs_x.htm
I agreed with him accept for the part about "poor slob".
I also read something in the USA Today that I really agreed with. It said that the NFL shouldn't have announced the mistake because the coaches and players made plenty of mistakes to get them into that situation anyway.
I think if they announce the official's mistakes they should also announce the teams mistakes. I will try to find you the link.

Re: Something I read
 

Interesting article and I agree. Good calls, bad calls, and missed calls are part of officiating in ALL sports at every level. When all is considered, the two competing teams ultimately decide the winner and not the officials. However, a bad call made at a crucial point in a closely contested game can tip the scale in the favor of one of the teams. As an official, you don't want to make a questionable call that has a huge effect on the outcome of a game. Now this doesn't mean at crucial times of the game you should not throw your flag just understand at certain times of the game, a flag can "destroy" the offending teams chances of winning the game. Teams should be penalized not destroyed. There is a difference. When you penalize a team, the team still has hope--they can recover. When you destroy a team it leaves them with no hope--they cannot recover, they are certain to lose. If you must throw the flag that destroys a team, make sure it is a flag that had to be thrown on a call that is undisputable.

Derock, you are regressing.....

If the foul is there that you would call in the 1st quarter (and did call)...you MUST call it in the 4th, even if it will "destroy" the team. That is what we call "consistency".

TXMike,
I'm not trying to discourage making a call in the 4th quarter. I'm simply saying in closely contested games, players and coaches know they can gain an advantage if they can get a favorable call from the official. The players and coaches will work you for that call at every opportunity they get. As an official, we need to be mindful of that and take careful consideration to not destroy a team on a questionable call. A questionable call in the 1st quarter does not have the same effect on the outcome of a game as a questionable call in sudden death overtime. If I have to make that call, I can assure you I will be standing clearly on the side of the right call instead of straddling the fence. The call would be undisputably clear so that my judgement is not questioned.


________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

My point is that the accomplished official will NOT make a "questionable" call at anytime in the game. If you think it is questionable, then it should not be called at anytime, unless it is in the "when in question" category. If it is not clear to me (and "to me" is the operant phrase here as I do not care if it is clear to a coach), then I am not flagging at anytime.

TXMike,
I'm simply saying in closely contested games, players and coaches know they can gain an advantage if they can get a favorable call from the official.

OMG !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

The players and coaches will work you for that call at every opportunity they get.

OMG !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

As an official, we need to be mindful of that and take careful consideration to not destroy a team on a questionable call.

I'm going to assume you're French with you're liberal use of the word "We"
Otherwise....Please dont include me in you're "We".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

A questionable call in the 1st quarter does not have the same effect on the outcome of a game as a questionable call in sudden death overtime.

So ? Do you think you're there to have an effect on the outcome?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

If I have to make that call, I can assure you I will be standing clearly on the side of the right call instead of straddling the fence. The call would be undisputably clear so that my judgement is not questioned.

Want to bet ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.

Less then you think
Derock</i> [/B][/QUOTE]

By the same token, if it <b>isn't</b> a foul in the first qtr, it's not one in the fourth.

So, in a nutshell, only throw flags on infractions that everybody will agree on, regardless of their rooting interest, angle, distance from the play, knowledge of the rule(s), mood, overall disposition, age, etc etc.??? That's crap. If it's a foul and you saw the entire thing, throw it. If you don't have the stones to take some heat, go home and let somebody who does call the game.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Mr Neil, you pick apart everything I post and I have decided for someone to be so critical of me, he himself must be clearly a much better official and it would be in my best interest as well as the interest of those games in which I officiate to learn from you.

If you feel I am incompetent as an official, I am asking you to teach me. I humbly and respectfully submit to you so you can teach me all the things I am lacking as an official. What do you say Mr Neil? Here is your chance to do something positive and help the "anti-ref" improve to become a more respectable official.

Even if you reject my offer, I will study your posts in hopes of gaining a better understanding of the rules.


___________________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

And my point is no matter how "accomplished" you are questionable calls, bad calls, and missed calls happen at every level in all sports and even to the most accomplished officials. I know I've made some and if you're honest, you will own up to your share as well. All I'm trying to say is we should be mindful that at crucial points of the games, we should try to be a little sharper and use better judgement to not destroy a team by making a questionable call.


__________________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

You make a much better fan and coach than you do a zebra dude. Every part of the game is "crucial". And I cannot concern myself with what you or any other fan thinks is a "questionable" call. If I make the call, it is not questionable to me.

[
Derock</i> [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE]

Mr Neil, you pick apart everything I post and I have decided for someone to be so critical of me, he himself must be clearly a much better official and it would be in my best interest as well as the interest of those games in which I officiate to learn from you.

If you feel I am incompetent as an official, I am asking you to teach me. I humbly and respectfully submit to you so you can teach me all the things I am lacking as an official. What do you say Mr Neil? Here is your chance to do something positive and help the "anti-ref" improve to become a more respectable official.

Even if you reject my offer, I will study your posts in hopes of gaining a better understanding of the rules.


Derock</i> [/B][/QUOTE]

Although I sincerely believe you're just pulling my chain and am posting in an sarcastic manner , I'll take you up on this Derock . Again I'll offer my help and am willing to send you any and all study materals I possess . I'm willing to do this because I belive the way you conduct youself and officiat is a great disservice to all invloed in this game we all love so much. My e-mail add is [email protected]
If your serious go ahead and send my your address and I'll get you started . I'll say right now that I'm no expert . I'm learning this as I go . I just want to get it right and as I've said in the past , it's important for you to get it right too ! . My adavice now as in the past is to just listen and learn . Stop argueining and trying to get us to think of doing this in the manner you've been doing it
. It dosnt work !

[/B][/QUOTE]

Mr Neil, you pick apart everything I post and I have decided for someone to be so critical of me, he himself must be clearly a much better official and it would be in my best interest as well as the interest of those games in which I officiate to learn from you.

If you feel I am incompetent as an official, I am asking you to teach me. I humbly and respectfully submit to you so you can teach me all the things I am lacking as an official. What do you say Mr Neil? Here is your chance to do something positive and help the "anti-ref" improve to become a more respectable official.

Even if you reject my offer, I will study your posts in hopes of gaining a better understanding of the rules.


Derock</i> [/B][/QUOTE]

Although I sincerely believe you're just pulling my chain and am posting in an sarcastic manner , I'll take you up on this Derock . Again I'll offer my help and am willing to send you any and all study materals I possess . I'm willing to do this because I belive the way you conduct youself and officiat is a great disservice to all invloed in this game we all love so much. My e-mail add is [email protected]
If your serious go ahead and send my your address and I'll get you started . I'll say right now that I'm no expert . I'm learning this as I go . I just want to get it right and as I've said in the past , it's important for you to get it right too ! . My adavice now as in the past is to just listen and learn . Stop argueining and trying to get us to think of doing this in the manner you've been doing it
. It dosnt work ! [/B][/QUOTE]

Mr Neil if you're learning and I'm learning then maybe the both of us can learn together from each other and from the experiences of others. Are you just as willing to except a lesson from me as you are willing to give one? I have been doing this for over 7 years. Surely there is something I have experienced in my 7 years that I could share with you that would make you a better official. Are you just going to send me rule and case books to read or are you going to teach me how to officiate? If you're only going to send me rule books thats fine because as you know, I could definitely polish up on my rule knowledge. As a matter of fact, had it not been for your annoying posts I would have never bothered to look for my NFHS rule book that I now keep right next to my computer. As my teacher, I will ask you for clarification on many posts in the forum that I'm having difficulty in understanding. Thanks for accepting my request for help and hopefully I can do the same for you.


_____________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

Derock1986:

Just out of curiosity.

1..Does the "1986" note your birth year?

2..Do you not belong to a football officials' association where you learn rules and interpretations?

3..Does the "Derock" describe the condition of your skull?

Bob

Derock,

You will never get past youth ball and shouldn't even be there.

1. 1986 note the year I received the golden zebra award for being the best official in 7 states.

2. I write the rules in the association and then host a clinic at $200 a member.

3. Derock describes what I keep in my flag--Derock.

Dumb answers for dumb questions to satisfy dumb people.



__________________________________
<i>But I'm only a youth official so what do I know.
Derock</i>

Funny...
 

Good one, Rock!

Hey, people will help you and yes, we're all learning all the time. I even believe we might be able to learn from you.

The deal is that many of your opinions on things like game sense, are not misguided in and of themselves. It's a combination of not becoming the complete official (rules, game sense, teachability, nonantagonsitic attitude) that put's you at arm's length on this board at times. Also, when the majority of the officials agree on a topic and try to reach you in multiple ways and then you continue to fight them without substance, you've got to reconsider your position. Then, even if you disagree, don't try to change everyone else and blather about game sense as a cure all.

I would suggest that most of the folks on this board understand the need to temper the rules with common sense on the field. But, knowledge of the rules has to come first. Let's focus on the rule application first, and then weave in a little game sense as needed.

Big D, let's all just get along....