Team A is set just before the snap, A2 (RB), is 5 yards behind the neutral zone in a standing position. A1 (QB) sends A2 in motion. A2 takes 3 steps forward and turns and runs parallel to the line of scrimmage and then turns up field after the ball is snapped.

Legal or illegal--ruling???

Legal per Rule 7-2-7.

Don't have my rule book. What exactly does rule 7-2-7 say?

I have a dead ball false start on A2.

I thought I read under NFHS that after A is set, any movement by A towards B's goal line prior to the ball being snapped is a foul.

Anyone else has any input/clarification?

If he is simulating the start of a play, its a false start. He can move forward but he cannot be going toward B's goal line at the snap. That's illegal motion.

If he made three deliberate steps forward and then went sideways (parallel to the LOS) that's fine. If he shot out of his stance toward the B goal line, that's a false start.

Under NCAA rules also, simply moving forward (by a back) is not a false start. As has been described, if it simulates the start of a play, it is a false start. Rule of thumb - If you think the play was starting, it was a false start. Many fans (and coaches) think a back can "reset" but that is BS. If he missed the snap count, he gets flagged.

The short of 7-2-7: Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent's goal line.

If you're figuring it's a false start, it's not per 7-1-7a: It is a false start if a shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.

I'm in agreement with A-Boss and TXMike on this one- he did not simulate action at the snap.

In Canada:

Legal play, providing that A2 is not withing 1 yard of the LS at the snap of the ball. If so: illegal procedure, but let the play develop, (ie: not a play where the play is whistled down immediately), unless he is within a yard of the LS *and* within the "close line play area", then it is a whistled down play.

Close line play area: a rectangle two yards in front of the LS to two yards behind the LS, and from tackle to tackle.

Mike

(I'm learning...)

So you're saying if he takes a hard burst forward its a false start but if he casually moves forward and then goes sideways its ok?

What if he takes a hard burst forward and then goes sideways is that ok or a false start or illegal motion???

Also, what is defined as "simulating" the start of a play. I always thought after becoming set, any forward movement by A is simulating the start of the play. If A is moving forward, are they not considered moving towards B's goal line???

<i>Also, what is defined as "simulating" the start of a play. I always thought after becoming set, any forward movement by A is simulating the start of the play. If A is moving forward, are they not considered moving towards B's goal line??? </i>

If you stand up, trot three steps forward and then turn and run parallel to the LOS, I don't think this qualifies as simulating the start of a play. Players usually explode out of their stances at the start of a play. Any movement by A toward the B goal line <i>at the snap</i> is definitely illegal motion. When players miss the snap count and you see that quick flinch, they have simulated the start of the play.

I'm having a hard time understanding the difference between a player trotting, walking, stumbling, or exploding forward. It all seems to be the same to me in relation to moving towards B's goal line.

Because you are hung up on the "moving towards B's goal line" as if that was an automatic indicator of a false start. A QB who misses the snap count and jerks his hands back, starting to leave before the ball is snapped, is guilty of a false start. He was not moving toward B. A RB who blasts off sideways before the ball is snapped because he knows he is running a toss play, is guilty of a false start.

What are you gonna do about this? The QB is under center. The team is set. He sees something in the defense that he wants to alert the tailback to so he slowly comes out from under center and moves back to the tailback to whisper in his earhole. When he starts walking back to his original position, has he false started?

Players are allowed to shift before the snap (except interior linemen [My Words-not rulebook words] who have put their hand(s) at or near the ground).

The responsability for avoiding simulating action at the snap lies clearly with the offense. If you believe the movement forward was as a result of missing the snap count, it is a false start. If a player moves forward and it appears to be a designed move and doesn't simulate action at the snap, it is a shift. In the context of this discussion, a shift is illegal only is if it headed forward at the time the ball is snapped.

Never thought about that but I definitely see your point! Thanks!

and remember illegal motion is a live ball foul

Guys,

I agree with you on a no call on this and I'm not trying to be an anal rules ref. However, help me reconcile the play and your comments with the NFHS rules. (or show me the error in my thinking).

#1 - The rule book in 7-2-7 states "Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is NOT toward his opponent's goal line." If this is true, Andrew, wouldn't this 'technically' be a foul since A was initially moving toward B's goal line while he was in motion? Again, I'm not saying we should call this, I'm just trying to make sure that I understand the rule as written. According to the rule, it seems to me (by strict interpretation of the rules) that this motion would be illegal.

#2 - Mike Sears. I agree that players are allowed to shift before the snap, but this play is clearly not a shift as the player does not become set after the motion. If he did, then the movement forward is of no consequence. A player moving forward without resetting is not a shift. Agree?

Guys, I guess I'm also "hung up on moving forward" in regards to this play. Although we may allow this motion, I believe the rules call it illegal motion based upon A's initial movement forward (even though this wasn't a false start or intended to deceive).

Please let me know if you find additional information to refute my opinion. Thanks.