I worked a JH game this year and was the head linesman for this game. The chain crew has worked together for about 15 years so I didn't forsee any big problems. Well they didn't seem to want to use a chain clip. I told them we needed the clip on but they ignored me. I told my whitehat and he had to come tell them he wanted it clipped. They argued, saying that it was not an NFL game. We insisted that we wanted it so if the chains were dropped we would have an accurate mark. That's only fair to the coaches and the players. These guys moaned the entire game about having to move the clip. We also talked to the AD during halftime about it.

Are there any secrets anyone has to get the chain crew to take you serious? It is my understanding that the whitehat is in charge of the officials, the chain crew and the scorekeeper.

chain crews and time keepers are part of the officiating crew.

you as the head linesmen are in charge of the chain crew.
They should listen to your instructions.



Don't your chain crews get their assignments from your association?

Most of the chain crews for JH and JV are assigned by the schools. Alot are parents or students.

So what do you do when the chain crew does not listen? You can't send them packing or you won't have a chain crew.

I would've been surprised to find the crew unwilling to do the clip- don't they have the same conversation every week? I've found that guys that do it all the time usually take pride in it and things go quite smoothly.

If it's a total disaster at halftime you can talk to the home coach and tell him you need replacements or you won't start the second half. He'll manage to come up with someone.

But for the most part you just have to deal with it the best you can and move on.

For a JV, Modified, Pee-Wee game, I wouldn't worry about a clip.
For a Varsity game, it is a must and that chain crew would either have to use it or find a "fourth" member to be the clip person.

Around my area (even the Varsity level), chain crews are chosen by the school hosting the contest. Usually, it is a bunch of dads who want to get admitted to the game for free and be close to the action. Most of them that I've worked with have been working the chains for eons.

I agee with everything else you said about the chain crews.



[Edited by mikesears on Dec 19th, 2002 at 12:38 PM]

I usually don't bother with a clip under V level. Just keep a mental note of the LTG.
The best chain crew I ever had were deaf mutes! The four of them have been working together for about 15 years now. Even had there own clip.

I support using a clip for all levels! Why wouldn't you want to use a clip? It can be a hassle, but at least where I work, the coaches and players have invested a lot of time preparing for the game. I plan to do the best job I can and a clip is a requirement for the job.

If I had a chain crew who didn't want to use a clip, it tells me two things: 1) Your fellow officials have let them get away with this before and now you're the bad guy trying to do the right thing; thank your buddies at the next association meeting, 2) This chain crew will not listen when you instruct them to hold their spot when there's a flag and will probably "leave early" on change of possessions; bad news either way and only your crew will suffer when the chain crew screws up.

Solutions: A non-confrontational way to handle it is to tell the coach you need a 4th person to complete the crew (for the clip). If necessary, demand they use it and get the coach or AD involved. You did the right thing by getting your Ref involved if you couldn't solve it, but try everything you can to handle it yourself.

Oh, and if it's not taken care of by the 1st series of downs, your last resort is to stop the game until it's resolved.

I use a chain clip for high school contests, but not for Jr. High. Our Jr. High games are three-man crews and normally have student chain crews. I am doing good to make sure they are marking correctly without worrying about a clip.

As far as managing the crew, I work HL on my varsity crew and some for sub-varsity. I had only one varsity occasion when I had to get on a crew and a couple of sub-varsity. Sometimes, you have to be stern without being condescending. If it gets too bad, just tell the home coach that the crew isn't doing their job and you need a replacement. I had to do that once and the coach had a "counseling" session with them and fixed the problem.

Regardless, remember that, ultimately, you are there to do a job, not to be their friend. If you want a clip, tell them they are to use a clip. Period, no debate. Good idea to escalate to the white hat next, then the AD. Sometimes you have to be firm. Luckily, the "lifer" crews I had this year were all pretty good.

We generally have a hard time getting parents to help with the chains at the JH level. The chain crew is usually kids that have gotten in trouble with the AD, and working the chains is part of their punishment..... Not a good situation. What the parents don't realize is they have a better view of the game from the Chains, plus a good chain crew adds to the game.

At the Varsity level, we have no problem with the Chain Crews, unless there's a fire or emergency. Of the 5 High Schools we service, 4 of them have chain crew members who are also members of the local volunteer fire department. Of course, half the crowd leaves if there's an emergency also. But it seems there are always parents who are anxious to fill in for those who leave, in fact they tend to fight over who gets to fill in.

Generally, at the JH level, we don't worry about the clip. At that level, the boys are just learning the game, and there isn't as much emphasis on the results as at the higher levels.

When I was in the San Fernando valley Unit of the California Association, we (as everywhere else) was having trouble getting chain crews for sub-varsity games. One of the members came up with a great solution. You don't need chains on the kickoff. Start the game. As soon as the ball is dead, the ref signals for an officials' time out. He then informs the home team head coach that the game cannot continue without a chain crew. As soon as the PA announcer tells the fans, get out of the way. There will be hordes of Dads coming out of the stands.

It worked every game from then on.

Also, if the chain crew won't listen to the HL's instructions, get the AD or head coach and tell him you need a new crew. Don't let the inmates run the asylum.

Bob

Where do you measure from without the clip? Do you guys just eyeball it or does somebody grab the chain at the intersection with the yardline do it that way?

It's just the way we came up in our association - you bought a clip (forgetting at least one and losing it before wising up and grabbing it before the end of the game)and used it. Never even considered doing a game without one. I would just say to the coaches 'no measurements today' if the chain crew declined to use one. If he had a problem with that, I'd invite him to discuss it with the chain crew.

[Edited by ABoselli on Dec 19th, 2002 at 07:39 PM]

LOL

That's exactly what I tell my umpire for sub-varsity games ... !

(We don't seem to have this problem at the Varsity level. Our big controversy is whether to put the clip at the front edge, the back edge, or the middle of the line! Also, we've been working the chains a yard or two off the line for a couple of years now.)

I don't agree with moving the chains off the sideline. We're lucky to have our fields marked legibly, especially at the lower levels. If we get straight lines on the Varsity fields we feel blessed. The times we've officiated a playoff game on an artificial turf field, we thought we were in heaven. I guess what I'm trying to say is our fields aren't accurate enough to worry about a clip.

"No measurements today" is quite often the order of the day. If a measurement is nessecary, the clip is in the Linesman's back pocket, or he just simply grabs the chain. The Linesman, at the lower level is more worried about his amature crew showing up for the second half, or paying attention to the game instead of the girls, or staying in place until the whitehat signals for a first down, or moving once the whitehat signals for a first down because they're talking to the cheerleaders.

I work ten to twelve peewee, JH and Undergrad games in addition to our weekly 1-2 varisty games. It is generally difficult to get and keep a chain gaing for more than a half. At JH I have had parents come onto the field to get their sons who were working the chians and leave, I have the kids just walk of in the middle of a series of downs to go play a pick up game in an adjoining lot, etc. I agree with BLue Zebra, the best way to get help is to have the PA announce. However, unlike Blue Zebra, we usually have the annoucer advise the stands that if there is not at least three volunteers to run the chains, the officials will have to declare a forfeit for the visiting team. The parents will flock out of the stands to make sure that "Little Johnny" plays. Perhaps the team still loses, but that is better than allowing a forfeit to occur.

USING A CLIP.

In our association area, the undergrad games are usually worked by mixed crews and noone knows what position he is working until a few minutes before game time. This gives older officials the chance to work various positions other than their weekly varsity position, as well as allows young officials to work where they are most comfortable. After twelve years and having worked all positions on the varisty level, I usually take whatever position no one else wants. If that turns out to be the Linesman, I would not think of not using a clip. If there is a clip, I emphasize that it is not important to reset the clip every series of downs, but that I will place it for measurements and between periods. If the chain gang does not have one and I do not have time to go back to the van to get mine, I generally use my Smitty whistle lanyard (I use a finger whistle and a lanyard whistle) as a clip for measurements and for between periods.

WHERE TO PUT THE CLIP.

I am the umpire on our varisty crew. My wings and I have an agreement that we try to spot the ball as close to a line as possible, without obviously moving the actual spot of the ball to start a drive and the first series of downs. This is easy on a touchback as I spot the ball with the front nose just touching the twenty yard line, and it is obvious that if the ball touches the thirty or is beyond it is a first down.

I use this same theory as to where to put the clip. I place it on the back edge of the line furtherest from the goal-to-gain post, so that when the chain is stretched to it fullest from that spot it is clear where the clip is, as it contrasts with the painted line, and where the line to gain is. Further the NFHS Officials Manual, which our association, and most others use as the point of reference, states:

Measuring for First Down using Traditional Rods and Chains

III. LINESMAN A. When a measurement is signaled by referee: 1. Grasp chain and clip at the back edge of the back-yard line (don't just grasp clip since clip could detach).
Five Officials (2202-03 Oficials Manual P.75, Measuring for First Down using Traditional ROds and Chains III.A.1.)
Four Officials (2202-03 Oficials Manual P.43, Measuring for First Down using Traditional ROds and Chains III.A.1.)

BETWEEN PERIODS PROCEDURE
IV. LINESMAN C. Clip chain at back edge of back-yard line.
Five Officials (2202-03 Oficials Manual P.78, Between Periods Procedure III.C.)
Four Officals(2202-03 Oficials Manual P.46, Between Periods Procedure, III.C.)

I do not understand why any official would want to even give a coach, or fans, a scintilla of reason to question whether the officials are giving the most accruate measurement possible. By all NHFS officials and associations just use a clip, or the little improvisation of a lanyard, as well as following the NHFS measurement procedure, all coaches, officials and fans know that every crew and official is doing the same thing to ensure that measurements are done the same every time a measurement is taken. That has to be a lot more reassuring to everyone regarding an official's final decision whether the line to gain was achieved or not, than merely eyeballing the sideline, taking the risk of dropping the chain and not knowing which link is to be on the line, or being questioned why each crew measures differently or why even the same crew is using a different clip spot for each measurement.

Some funny stories, we usually don't have any probs with high school crews, actually had some young ladies working the jv/frosh games for extra credit at one school. They were actually very good, yes they used a clip!!
BUT, one of our pop-warner teams had a big problem with getting a crew together...Head coach was scrambling for a crew(after kick-off, game suspended while he scrambles), he pulls some kids together and sends them over to my HL. HL is our Varsity HL, used to decent crews. Box "kid" is coaches 7 year old daughter, couldn't even flip the downs, the rest are even younger!! HL is spotting ball, waving box up to him and flipping downs, needless to say, no clip. But, we all had a good time and laugh about it...............

Added to the discussion, I have worked HL for VAR gamesthe last 4 years and got the hair brain idea to use 2 clips this season. Why might you ask?I got the scare of my life one game when we had a first down. Set the chains, play begins quickly. The "clip man" was late in getting the clip, so he takes it off and before he can get it back on, the offense throws a quick pass to my side, player is tackled out of bounds in to the chains. The gang dropped the sticks as they bailed out. Fortunatly, I saw the clip man be late, dropped my bag at the LOS. We were able to get everyone back to the correct spots.

Why the long winded story? the 2 dlips worked. It alows the clip man to get the new clip on , then take his time getting the old one off. Every crew (except teh 1 crew that each were 150 years old and had been doing the chains for the last 145 of them) said they liked it. Less stress as one explained. I did not realize that chians was a huge stress job.

Oh well, just my 3 cents worth.

I worked the chains for the AF2 team here in Rochester last year and we used the two clip system. Working the chains and box for indoor games is a little bit different animal all together. You really have to have some stamina. Since we obviously can't stand there with the chains and box we have to set them, clip the line, bag the spot of the box and run back to A's end zone and wait for the next play. The linesman in the league aren't that great in signaling first downs, so when they are down inside the 10 yard line close to a first, we have to wait, wait, wait until he finally calls us and then was have to hoof it all out to set them and get all the way back.

After a while we wised up and would only go back to about the A20. The sticks are always falling over so sometimes the fans help us and hold the sticks and box for us. The box man really gets a workout as he runs on every play. Sometimes we get a sympathetic linesman who will change the down on the box on an incomplete pass so he doesn't have to run all that way just for that, but usually not.

It's a workout, but it's a football fix until real football gets here.

Most of the officials were D3 and D2 guys. A few of them got their calls and were headed to A10 and Big East crews that fall.

sm_bbcoach
 

I don't undrstand your "2-clip" mechanics; it sounds interesting. Could you give an explanlation of how two clips are used?

I have read the above posts. The reason for the clip has explained to me when I first started out was, primarly, to reset the chains when play forced them to move. The second, of course, was to aid in measurments.

Thanks.

Re: sm_bbcoach
 

Using 2 clips, you do not remove the clip used for the previous series until AFTER you have put the 2nd clip down for the current line to gain. This allows you to avoid the time taken to get the clip removed and reset during the interval of one play.

Exactly as explained. And, you do not think that the one play will matter until you get the one clip guy who is slacking off, cought talking, or is 150 years old as many of the one have been thatI have worked with.
It is a good mechanic and I would encourage use of it.

Thanks bigwhistle! I will consider the use of two clips and suggest it to my HL.

As a white hat, spots and chains improperly handled are two things that really upset me.

I have my linesman make sure the chains are 10 yards and someone will be operating the clip before the game starts. He also must place a piece of tape at the 5-yard mark so that on 5-yard penalties we know before enforcement if we have a first.

The clip always goes on the rear edge of the first yard line closest to the rear stake, theory being it is the shortest and truest distance from the initial ball placement.

When it is judged that the chains need to come in I demand that the ball is not moved. Bring the chains into the ball. Nothing looks sloppier than an official picking up the ball and moving it then measuring for a first down. What if the measurement comes up 1/4 inch short? Did your action cause it?

Yeah. "If you aren't prepared to do the job, we'll find someone else."

You WHAT?? You're paid to spot the ball where the spot of the ball is, not where it is convenient for you.

Well, what is it? Are you accurate on every play, or do you move the ball around for your convenience?

[Edited by sportswriter on Jan 26th, 2003 at 12:50 PM]

When I line, I try to (always) remember where the back stick was, in case there's a screwup or (as has happened more times than I care to recall), the stick crew goes for a wander on a punt when there's laundry on the field. Saved my bacon and that of the whole crew, lemme tell you.

Another idea I haven't seen mentioned: before the start of the game, the HL should go over the operation of the sticks with the crew. In addition, a good thing to carry are some small white "zap straps" or some spare elastic bands. Use those to mark the five yard mark (easily done - just have one of the crew hold both sticks together, stretch out the chain - that's the five-yard mark). It's subtle, but that way, if there's a five-yard penalty on the defence and the ball is somewhere around the middle of the chains, the HL can quickly inform the white cap if the penalty will give the offence a first down or not. [more valid for Canadian rules, where the LOS is used as a point of reference more frequently, btw.]