Hurry Up Situation!

Nyjets · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 02:49pm

Here is the play regarding a hurry up situation. Team A doesn't have any timeouts remaining, and just gained a first down inbounds. The clock is stopped to move the chains, but will start with the ready for play. Team A comes up to the ball and gets set with the snapper placing his hand on the ball. The umpire tells the snapper to wait for the whistle before snapping the ball. The very moment he hears the whistle blow, he snaps the ball and the QB spikes the ball immediately. Is this a legal play? Does the snapper have to wait for any certain amount of time after hearing the ready before snapping the ball? Remember, all members of the offense were set and just waiting for the whistle to blow. Your thoughts will be appreciated!

ABoselli · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 03:49pm

Good play by A. The referee won't blow it until he's sure his guys are set and ready, so when he blows it ready, it's ready - let's play. As long as A was set for 1 second, good job by them.

Nyjets · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 03:57pm

I feel the same way you do, but the book says that after the ready for play has been given, the snapper has to pause before snapping the ball (Rule 7). So if the snapper snaps the ball as soon as he hears the beginning of the whistle. I have heard this was an illegal snap by A because the snapper didn't pause after the ready for play. We ruled the play legal!

ABoselli · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 05:10pm

It says after the ready for play and after touching the ball. I think they mean he can't bend over and just snap it just as he grasps it. He was sitting there waiting for the ready to play as I understand it. Play on!

Mike Simonds · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 08:41pm

The rule says that all players must be set for one second prior to the snap. My understanding is that team A can be set before the ready for play and when the whistle is sounded, the center can legally snap the ball. Legal play.

Mike Simonds · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 26, 2002, 08:43pm

Just make sure the center has his hands on the ball and has clearly paused in a set postion for one second prior to the snap.

Sometimes when the offense lines-up in a swinging gate formation the center will snap the ball immediately after placing his hand(s) on it without clearly pausing for 1 full second. This is a snap infraction.

HighSchoolWhiteHat · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 06, 2002, 02:25pm

My umpire will not let a center touch the ball till my whistle is blown.

AndrewMcCarthy · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 06, 2002, 03:41pm

What is the correct mechanic for the umpire? To stand over the ball until the RFP?

Seems to me in a hurry-up situation he would get caught in the middle of the action if they snap it right on the whistle.

JugglingReferee · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 06, 2002, 04:37pm

I don't know NC2A or NFHS football rules, but let me get this straight... if I am wrong please corect me. (I'm Canadian and we use our own rules here.)

The clock stops in this sitch (1st down) with 0.9 seconds left.

The clock starts on the ready for play with the referee's signal to start the clock. If A has to wait 1 second after the RFP whistle before they can snap the ball, the the snap of the ball MUST come after time has expired.

My question is this: I know in the NFL (please no comments...) the snap has to come before time expires. Does NC2A or NFHS rules stipulate that the snap must come before time expires?

If so, then essentially, in this situation, the game is over at any time the clock reads less than 1 second. (If my logic is wrong, please let me know.)

If not, then why do some plays require 1 second before the snap and other don't?

Mike

Quote:

Originally posted by Nyjets
Here is the play regarding a hurry up situation. Team A doesn't have any timeouts remaining, and just gained a first down inbounds. The clock is stopped to move the chains, but will start with the ready for play. Team A comes up to the ball and gets set with the snapper placing his hand on the ball. The umpire tells the snapper to wait for the whistle before snapping the ball. The very moment he hears the whistle blow, he snaps the ball and the QB spikes the ball immediately. Is this a legal play? Does the snapper have to wait for any certain amount of time after hearing the ready before snapping the ball? Remember, all members of the offense were set and just waiting for the whistle to blow. Your thoughts will be appreciated!

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Dec 6th, 2002 at 03:40 PM]

ABoselli · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 06, 2002, 04:54pm

I think the answer is that there is no 1 second pause requirement after the ready but there is one for players after they have become set. So, they can sit there set and wait for the ready and then snap it. The snap has to beat the horn or 0.0 or whatever signals the end of the period, but if it does, the play can last as long as it lasts.

Our umpires used to stand over the ball until no one could come up with a good reason for it other than 'that's how we've always done it'. If it's weather, then keeping a ball dry or keeping it from blowing away on turf or short grass is a good reason, but I can't think of any others. The R should tell the QB to wait for his whistle if he feels that he might not given a tense hurry up situation.

Derock1986 · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 07, 2002, 08:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I don't know NC2A or NFHS football rules, but let me get this straight... if I am wrong please corect me. (I'm Canadian and we use our own rules here.)

The clock stops in this sitch (1st down) with 0.9 seconds left.

The clock starts on the ready for play with the referee's signal to start the clock. If A has to wait 1 second after the RFP whistle before they can snap the ball, the the snap of the ball MUST come after time has expired.

My question is this: I know in the NFL (please no comments...) the snap has to come before time expires. Does NC2A or NFHS rules stipulate that the snap must come before time expires?

If so, then essentially, in this situation, the game is over at any time the clock reads less than 1 second. (If my logic is wrong, please let me know.)

If not, then why do some plays require 1 second before the snap and other don't?

Mike

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Dec 6th, 2002 at 03:40 PM]

The rule is all linemen must be motionless for 1 second prior to snap. Basically this is only saying there cannot be any movement on the line prior to the snap. If the center snaps the ball soon as he touches it then its a foul. If the ball has not been snapped before time expires, then thats the end of the game. I have never seen a football play clock that uses tenths of a second as the official time--it will say 1 second or 0 seconds (end of game). But to answer your question, it is possible for the offense to snap the ball with 1 second (or even .9 seconds) provided the offense is set and ready to snap the ball as soon as the ready for play is given. Its legal as long as their is no linemen moving just before the snap. Also, the game clock starts after the ready whistle is given NOT as the ready whistle is given. Its a close call but if the offense hustles to setup and their is no movement prior to the snap, I would allow the play to run.

Derock1986 · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 07, 2002, 08:46am

Oops! Just read the original post again and noticed the QB SPIKES THE BALL with 1 second remaining. BALL GAME! Time expired! There is no way you can snap the ball and spike it with 1 second remaining. Legal play because the linemen were set but still ball game because time expired after the spike.

Jim Beltz · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 07, 2002, 09:51am

You have all (for the most part) gotten the rule right, but here is where it gets better.

It is possible to start and stop a game clock with only one second showing on it in the situation described. The internal clock processor, even if the clock does not indicate 10ths/100th of seconds still processes them. What you don't know in a football game (I have never seen a fooball game clock show anything other that whole seconds)with .01 left on the clock is how close is .01 to .0001. The clock knows, but no one else does.

Now for the situation:

1. Clock shows .01 of time left
2. Snap is at the whistle (really quick center and almost simultaneous to whistle, but to some in the stands who are far enough away (insert sound distance travel time here) the snap was ahead of the whistle)).
3. Clock operator sees the snap, but he/she is a little slow in starting the clock, maybe caught off guard just a little by the quick snap. You could maybe add 2 or 3 tenths of a second here.
4. QB receives the snap and is really quick with his spike of the ball.
5. Clock operator who was slow to start the clock, and is now focused and trying to speed up almost anticipates the spike of the ball, and in so doing stops the clock absolutely instantaneously with the spike. Subtract 1 or 2 tenths here.
6. Everone looks up at the game clock and it hasn't moved. Do you hear the fans yet, or the other teams coach? At this point, maybe the white hat (with the last word on time) waives off the time and hoists the ball in the air...game over. NOW CAN YOU HERE THE FANS?

Point is, it would seem possible to get a play off and stop the clock without consuming one second even thought the clock was in fact started and stoped by the operator.

Derock1986 · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 07, 2002, 10:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Beltz
You have all (for the most part) gotten the rule right, but here is where it gets better.

It is possible to start and stop a game clock with only one second showing on it in the situation described. The internal clock processor, even if the clock does not indicate 10ths/100th of seconds still processes them. What you don't know in a football game (I have never seen a fooball game clock show anything other that whole seconds)with .01 left on the clock is how close is .01 to .0001. The clock knows, but no one else does.

Now for the situation:

1. Clock shows .01 of time left
2. Snap is at the whistle (really quick center and almost simultaneous to whistle, but to some in the stands who are far enough away (insert sound distance travel time here) the snap was ahead of the whistle)).
3. Clock operator sees the snap, but he/she is a little slow in starting the clock, maybe caught off guard just a little by the quick snap. You could maybe add 2 or 3 tenths of a second here.
4. QB receives the snap and is really quick with his spike of the ball.
5. Clock operator who was slow to start the clock, and is now focused and trying to speed up almost anticipates the spike of the ball, and in so doing stops the clock absolutely instantaneously with the spike. Subtract 1 or 2 tenths here.
6. Everone looks up at the game clock and it hasn't moved. Do you hear the fans yet, or the other teams coach? At this point, maybe the white hat (with the last word on time) waives off the time and hoists the ball in the air...game over. NOW CAN YOU HERE THE FANS?

Point is, it would seem possible to get a play off and stop the clock without consuming one second even thought the clock was in fact started and stoped by the operator.

IMPOSSIBLE! There is no way you can run a play without using 1 second of the game clock.

Jim Beltz · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 07, 2002, 10:28am

Very possible and provable...

Go get your Fair-Play control modual (or whatever type you have for your clock) power it up, and then toggle the clock switch and you will see that is quite possible.

I didn't include this in my original reply, but can you imagine a home team who needs an operator that is just a bit slow to start the clock and a bit fast to stop it at a critical point in the game. I would hope never to find out that an operator actually intentionally did such a thing, but do you suppose it ever happens.

This is all just for fun, though, isn't it.