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Andy Mon Dec 06, 2010 09:55am

Backing your officials....
 
First of all, let me say that I am not a football official, but do officiate other sports, so I am not posting this as just a fan....

NFL, Pittsburgh at Baltimore Sunday evening.

Third quarter, Pittsburgh TE Heath Miller takes a hit to the head after an incomplete pass an suffers a concussion as reported by the game announcers. No penalty was called on the Baltimore defender Jameel McClain.

VIDEO: Heath Miller Knocked Out By Vicious Blow To The Head - From Our Editors - SBNation.com

My question concerns what happened a bit later in the game. The NBC announcer makes a statement that the NFL director of officiating has called and told them (NBC) that a penalty should have been called on that play.

I understand that the helmet-to-helmet hits are a very sensitive issue in the NFL right now, but to me, this seems like throwing your officials under the bus on national TV. If the officials had missed a holding call, for example, would the same thing have happened?

Just curious to see what you all, as football officials, have to say.

JugglingReferee Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:43am

Missed call.

It's not the first and won't be the last.

The official(s) will be dinged.

Time to move on.

APG Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:38pm

I don't see this as throwing anyone under the bus. It was a missed call on a call that everyone has been focusing on period. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not as if the league came out and said the calling official was horrible or anything to that effect. THAT would be throwing an official under the bus.

Regardless of what sport, at the professional level, big misses will be called out and be commented by your director to the public.

HLin NC Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:45pm

The NFL, first with Pereira, and now are trying to be a bit more open about how the officiating program operates. Mike P had a segment in-season on every Wed. night on the NFL Network explaining calls or non-calls. This has been continued since he retired but not to the extent he did. They have also opened communication with the networks to try and correct false or misleading information coming from the announcer booth in-game.

Think of it as sort of an NFL glasnost.

mbyron Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 705630)
The NFL, first with Pereira, and now are trying to be a bit more open about how the officiating program operates. Mike P had a segment in-season on every Wed. night on the NFL Network explaining calls or non-calls. This has been continued since he retired but not to the extent he did. They have also opened communication with the networks to try and correct false or misleading information coming from the announcer booth in-game.

Think of it as sort of an NFL glasnost.

Glasnost, sure, but it's mainly a PR effort to have a reputable expert explaining how the officials are getting it right in the vast majority of cases.

I think that the NFL policy (but not the rule) regarding helmet-to-helmet contact is in flux right now. Officials will get dinged because a supervisor thinks a flag should have been thrown or not. Right now judgments about what is a foul strike me as somewhat arbitrary and ad hoc.

The policy is evolving and will settle down in due course. Used to be the same for holding. :shrug:

APG Mon Dec 06, 2010 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 705634)
Glasnost, sure, but it's mainly a PR effort to have a reputable expert explaining how the officials are getting it right in the vast majority of cases.

I think that the NFL policy (but not the rule) regarding helmet-to-helmet contact is in flux right now. Officials will get dinged because a supervisor thinks a flag should have been thrown or not. Right now judgments about what is a foul strike me as somewhat arbitrary and ad hoc.

The policy is evolving and will settle down in due course. Used to be the same for holding. :shrug:

You're right in saying that all this is mainly PR. It's the same reason the NBA has a similar type show reviewing calls from past games on their network and why they have a video rulebook online. I don't know how effective it all is because you still hear the same usual comments from the same suspects regardless.

I agree that with due time, things will settle and these calls will become more consistent. As is, the rule does read that if in doubt, to go ahead and throw the flag.

Note: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactics, the covering official(s) should always call unnecessary roughness.


I was a bit surprised that the flag didn't come out on this play. Especially after hearing Mike Pierra recently a Fox Sports Radio show where he commented that officials aren't dinged for erring on the side of caution.

ajmc Mon Dec 06, 2010 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 705636)
You're right in saying that all this is mainly PR. I don't know how effective it all is because you still hear the same usual comments from the same suspects regardless.

Clarification and explanation, for the most part are helpful and constructive, but the unfortunate reality is that many of those "same suspects" have absolutely no interest in either clarity or explanation, they whine because they like to whine and enjoy the attention they receive by whining.

Satisfying these types is an endless effort to get nowhere. It's like explaining a rule clearly and precisely so that the inquirer understands why the call was made the way it was made, and then responds, "Well....it's a stupid rule".

ajmc Mon Dec 06, 2010 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 705636)
You're right in saying that all this is mainly PR. I don't know how effective it all is because you still hear the same usual comments from the same suspects regardless.

Clarification and explanation, for the most part are helpful and constructive, but the unfortunate reality is that many of those "same suspects" have absolutely no interest in either clarity or explanation, they whine because they like to whine and enjoy the attention they receive by whining.

Satisfying these types is an endless effort to get nowhere. It's like explaining a rule clearly and precisely so that the inquirer understands why the call was made the way it was made, and then responds, "Well....it's a stupid rule".

APG Mon Dec 06, 2010 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmc (Post 705650)
Clarification and explanation, for the most part are helpful and constructive, but the unfortunate reality is that many of those "same suspects" have absolutely no interest in either clarity or explanation, they whine because they like to whine and enjoy the attention they receive by whining.

Satisfying these types is an endless effort to get nowhere. It's like explaining a rule clearly and precisely so that the inquirer understands why the call was made the way it was made, and then responds, "Well....it's a stupid rule".

So good you had to say it twice...;)

You're definitely right. On your point about presenting a rule, I recently did that for a local sports radio show where they were discussion the "misapplication" of college football rule. Now I'm not a football official (rather basketball), but I do have the PDF file for the rules and interpretations. I sent an e-mail with the exact rule and interpretation which was exactly like the play in question. The response I get from the host? "Well that rule is stupid!" :rolleyes:

I will say, I do enjoy the professional leagues being more open and allowing more access to rules/interpretations/etc even if it's only for PR reasons. My only wish would be to have the NFL rule book and casebook free online as a PDF like the NBA, MLB, and NHL do rather then have to pay for my copy of the book.

BktBallRef Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:05pm

Bottom line, it's real easy to make those calls when you get to see it in slo-mo from several different angles.

It's much more difficult to make the call on the field and risk penalizing a team for what could be a legal hit. I think determining whether such a hit is legal or illegal is the toughest call officials have to make right now.

Canned Heat Tue Dec 07, 2010 09:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 705768)
I think determining whether such a hit is legal or illegal is the toughest call officials have to make right now.

At the NFL level.....I could not agree more.

chymechowder Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:40am

I'm not sure this play should be flagged. McClain didn't go high. He didn't launch himself up at Miller's head.

Instead, he's running at Miller to break up the pass and/or make a hit, and he's coming in waist level. But Miller trips and falls. What's a defender to do if the area he was about to legally hit is all of a sudden occupied by an opponent's head?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that players should be given the benefit of the doubt on malicious hits. And what happened to Miller is unfortunate, to be sure.

But sometimes receivers duck or fall and their head gets in the way. And a would-be legal (if tough) hit becomes dangerous.

Texas Aggie Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:20am

I don't know the NFL rule specifically, but under NCAA rules, to the extent it even IS a foul, it would be purely for defenseless player and not for any upper body language -- leading, crown of the helmet, etc. I'm not 100% sure this is a foul, though in slo-mo it looks like one. Since I didn't see it full speed, I can't say whether I would have thrown a flag or that one should even have been thrown.

You can't assume automatically this was a foul. I seriously doubt the defender will be fined.

APG Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 705829)
I don't know the NFL rule specifically, but under NCAA rules, to the extent it even IS a foul, it would be purely for defenseless player and not for any upper body language -- leading, crown of the helmet, etc. I'm not 100% sure this is a foul, though in slo-mo it looks like one. Since I didn't see it full speed, I can't say whether I would have thrown a flag or that one should even have been thrown.

You can't assume automatically this was a foul. I seriously doubt the defender will be fined.

The defender was fined $40,000 for the hit.

NFL.com news: Ravens LB McClain fined $40K for hit on Steelers TE Miller

Andy Tue Dec 07, 2010 02:10pm

I certainly am aware of the NFL stance on "vicious" hits this season, and the controversy over what is and isn't considered viscious. I am not a fan of either team, just enjoying a good football game, and personally, I thought that this hit should have been flagged when watching the game even before I saw the replay.

My question or concern centers more around the director of officiating calling out his officials on national TV. Yes, the hit was right in line with the NFL emphasis, yes, the officials on the game did not flag it for whatever reason.

Shouldn't that be handled with the officials in private, after the game? I know that there is most likely a political and PR aspect to the situation given the media machine that is the NFL, but I guess it just disturbs me that they were openly called out by their boss in front of the world, so to speak.

APG Tue Dec 07, 2010 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 705894)
I certainly am aware of the NFL stance on "vicious" hits this season, and the controversy over what is and isn't considered viscious. I am not a fan of either team, just enjoying a good football game, and personally, I thought that this hit should have been flagged when watching the game even before I saw the replay.

My question or concern centers more around the director of officiating calling out his officials on national TV. Yes, the hit was right in line with the NFL emphasis, yes, the officials on the game did not flag it for whatever reason.

Shouldn't that be handled with the officials in private, after the game? I know that there is most likely a political and PR aspect to the situation given the media machine that is the NFL, but I guess it just disturbs me that they were openly called out by their boss in front of the world, so to speak.

This happens all the time at the professional level...it's just a matter of saying a call was missed. I don't see what the big deal is. :confused: It's not as if the director called out the abilities of the calling official. Just a simple statement that this particular play was missed.

Texas Aggie Tue Dec 07, 2010 05:26pm

Quote:

The defender was fined $40,000 for the hit.
I hope he appeals. As someone who supports the rule and flags it more than most, I think this fine is BS.

jchamp Tue Dec 07, 2010 07:37pm

The NFL's business is selling an exciting competition, and with 120 fps 1080i HD cameras on the field, every action can be scrutinized to the nth degree. The replay and review process has encouraged defenders to be even more aggressive about making the initial hit to break up a catch--there's little chance of the "catch-and-fumble" call. Slowing a play down to 1/5th the speed skews reality and is a horrible position to make a decision about intent, and that is where FINES should be based on--intent. The on-field penalty can be based purely on "what happened" (hence the recent rules changes that remove the determination of intent from deciding the outcome of most plays), but fines, actual financial actions against your own employees, should not be about an accident on the field of play, but rather what the player TRIED to do.
The NFL does a very good job of selling an exciting games, and the result is they have a very profitable business. Financial penalties for malicious and unsporting behavior is certainly justified. They should not financially penalize those who make an unavoidable mistake in a situation that the company put them into.

parepat Wed Dec 08, 2010 05:13pm

I have never heard of the league commenting to the media about a foul DURING THE GAME and could set a very dangerous precedent that could come back to haunt it.

ajmc Wed Dec 08, 2010 06:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by parepat (Post 706238)
I have never heard of the league commenting to the media about a foul DURING THE GAME and could set a very dangerous precedent that could come back to haunt it.

Forgive me, but questioning a call during the contest, much less stating that it was wrong, is an amazingly stupid thing for any league to do, at any time, for any reason. Clarifying a rule, explaining possibilities seems like overkill, during the game, but actually criticizing the call is insane.

Exactly who are they trying to impress? for what purpose?

Mike L Wed Dec 08, 2010 07:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmc (Post 706263)
Forgive me, but questioning a call during the contest, much less stating that it was wrong, is an amazingly stupid thing for any league to do, at any time, for any reason. Clarifying a rule, explaining possibilities seems like overkill, during the game, but actually criticizing the call is insane.

Exactly who are they trying to impress? for what purpose?

The fans. To keep them happy and paying the bills.
This is nothing more than the instant gratification the fan-base has come to expect. People tend to forget the NFL is first and foremost an entertainment business. And the very huge majority of those fans couldn't care less about the officials except when it comes to blaming them for some perceived wrong against their team. At least MP does come on with just about as much regularity explaining how the call was correct as he does it was missed.


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