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-   -   grounded punt (https://forum.officiating.com/football/59560-grounded-punt.html)

phansen Wed Oct 27, 2010 08:08am

grounded punt
 
NFHS

K1 punts the ball into a heavy wind. It is grounded, untouched by K or R beyond the line of scrimmage and rebounds behind the line of scrimmage. It has been my contention that this ball can be recovered and advanced by either team according to casebook 6.2.3 situation A. Comment.
A fellow official argued that is only the case if it is muffed by R as it says in 6.2.3 A.
Which is correct? other rules reference always appreciated.

ppaltice Wed Oct 27, 2010 09:11am

K can catch or recover any kick behind the LOS and advance.

Where R comes into play is that if R touches the ball beyond the ENZ (and no non-psk foul occurs before the kick ends), which ever team is in possession at the end of the down will be awarded a new set of downs.

In your play situation, when K recovers the ball, the ball is still live. But K still needs to advance beyond the line to gain to be awarded a new series.

If R would have muffed the ball beyond the ENZ and then K recovered the ball behind the NZ, K can advance the ball and whereever they end up will be 1st and 10 for K.

ump33 Wed Oct 27, 2010 09:16am

If the grounded, untouched kick beyond the line of scrimmage rebounds behind the line of scrimmage, K may recover and advance. However, if it is 4th down K must make the line to gain to retain possession.
6-2-3 . . . Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.
If the kick is touched by R beyond the line of scrimmage, it will be 1st down for the team in possession when the down ends.
5-1-3f …. The team in possession at the end of the down, if R is the first to touch a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the expanded neutral zone, unless the penalty is accepted for a non post-scrimmage kick foul which occurred before the kick ended.

BktBallRef Wed Oct 27, 2010 09:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by phansen (Post 698343)
NFHS

K1 punts the ball into a heavy wind. It is grounded, untouched by K or R beyond the line of scrimmage and rebounds behind the line of scrimmage. It has been my contention that this ball can be recovered and advanced by either team according to casebook 6.2.3 situation A. Comment.
A fellow official argued that is only the case if it is muffed by R as it says in 6.2.3 A.
Which is correct? other rules reference always appreciated.

You are correct. Either team can advance the ball if it's recovered behind the LOS.

kdf5 Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump33 (Post 698349)
If the grounded, untouched kick beyond the line of scrimmage rebounds behind the line of scrimmage, K may recover and advance. However, if it is 4th down K must make the line to gain to retain possession.
6-2-3 . . . Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.
If the kick is touched by R beyond the line of scrimmage, it will be 1st down for the team in possession when the down ends.
5-1-3f …. The team in possession at the end of the down, if R is the first to touch a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the expanded neutral zone, unless the penalty is accepted for a non post-scrimmage kick foul which occurred before the kick ended.

5-1-4 . . . Unless first touched by R beyond the neutral zone, if the kickers recover a scrimmage kick in or behind the neutral zone, the ball remains live and belongs to K and the down counts.

Robert Goodman Wed Oct 27, 2010 04:15pm

And whether it's grounded or not has no signficance. R has no specific right to a catch on K's side of the neutral zone.

JugglingReferee Wed Oct 27, 2010 08:02pm

Canadian Ruling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phansen (Post 698343)
K1 punts the ball into a heavy wind. It is grounded, untouched by K or R beyond the line of scrimmage and rebounds behind the line of scrimmage. It has been my contention that this ball can be recovered and advanced by either team according to casebook 6.2.3 situation A. Comment.
A fellow official argued that is only the case if it is muffed by R as it says in 6.2.3 A.
Which is correct? other rules reference always appreciated.

CANADIAN RULING:

K can do whatever they want with the ball: kick, pass, or run. Same for R, but they cannot execute a forward pass.

Cobra Wed Oct 27, 2010 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 698503)
CANADIAN RULING:

K can do whatever they want with the ball: kick, pass, or run. Same for R, but they cannot execute a forward pass.

How does R kicking the ball work?

Robert Goodman Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:38pm

Canadian kicking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra (Post 698504)
How does R kicking the ball work?

Same as by the original kicking team, except that the definition of "blocked kick" makes no reference to the line of scrimmage.

JugglingReferee Thu Oct 28, 2010 01:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra (Post 698504)
How does R kicking the ball work?

They obtain possession of the ball, and then kick it.

Or, they kick the loose ball, which is called a dribbled ball, and rulings from here differ than punts or open field (post-COP) kicks.

In Canada, we may kick pretty much anytime we want.

JugglingReferee Thu Oct 28, 2010 01:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 698541)
Same as by the original kicking team, except that the definition of "blocked kick" makes no reference to the line of scrimmage.

I imagine a kick by R that is blocked must by simultaneously touched by R's foot and K's body part that does the blocking.

Robert Goodman Thu Oct 28, 2010 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 698559)
I imagine a kick by R that is blocked must by simultaneously touched by R's foot and K's body part that does the blocking.

No, but after contact with the player who blocked it, the ball has to travel forward from that team's perspective. Just deflected doesn't count.

BroKen62 Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:11am

i must have missed the memo. (or else I'm in the wrong sport.)

JugglingReferee Sat Oct 30, 2010 04:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 698592)
No, but after contact with the player who blocked it, the ball has to travel forward from that team's perspective. Just deflected doesn't count.

?????????????????

faisalmajeed Sat Oct 30, 2010 01:49pm

best of luck


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