Punt Near Endzone

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It must have worked out fine because that was the year I got those patches a few weeks later. I said exactly what I wanted to say, all those spots are irrelevant to me. They do not mean anything because it is not hard to figure out which is the dead ball spot and compare that to the first touching spot we are going to use. I guess unless you have no field awareness or game awareness this might be difficult. I even learned a long time ago to figure out the first down spot without having to look at the sticks. If I can do that it is not hard to decide what spot to use. I know I am not alone in that at all, because officials greater than me taught me to do that.

I asked a person on my crew tonight that also worked a State Final with me and is the rules guy on our crew. We had a game tonight because of the Jewish Holiday and this was talked about in our pregame. He often will get into rules discussions with us and give his opinion. And when our crew chief sends out emails with rules and situations, he almost always responds and gives a through explanation. So if I was wrong he would tell me that is what he thought. I asked him directly several situations of different first touching spots. I did not tell him about this conversation or the context, I just asked him what would he do and how would you handle it. He did at first say he would mark all those spots, but then when he thought about it, he said, "If I do all of that, I will not have the spot for the end of the kick or the end of the related run that could occur." He even talked briefly about throwing his hat, but then said to me "Why?" Because he realized that they are not going to take the ball at the other spots anyway and the other spots would be more important. I did not direct him in any direction or try to tell him what I would do.

The conversation only took a couple of minutes. BTW he is a college official as well.

Sorry, not taking back a single word. I stand by what I said. And if you did not get it the first time, all those spots are irrelevant to me. There is a dead ball spot and a first touching spot. The furthest most spot for first touching is going to be used and I do not need to bag every single spot. And the vast majority of first touching spots are clearly identifiable. Better yet, I would not have bags for every spot even if I wanted to. I only take three and I have yet to use all three on a single play even with a first touching spots. I stand by what I say, call me wrong but that is what I am going to do. Do you!!!

Peace

Thank you. I'll accept this as an admission that you agree the second and subsequent spots could also be spots of first touching and the only one that matters is the one that benefits R the most. That is the only one that truly needs a bean bag or some reference to location.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It must have worked out fine because that was the year I got those patches a few weeks later. I said exactly what I wanted to say, all those spots are irrelevant to me. They do not mean anything because it is not hard to figure out which is the dead ball spot and compare that to the first touching spot we are going to use. I guess unless you have no field awareness or game awareness this might be difficult. I even learned a long time ago to figure out the first down spot without having to look at the sticks. If I can do that it is not hard to decide what spot to use. I know I am not alone in that at all, because officials greater than me taught me to do that.

I asked a person on my crew tonight that also worked a State Final with me and is the rules guy on our crew. We had a game tonight because of the Jewish Holiday and this was talked about in our pregame. He often will get into rules discussions with us and give his opinion. And when our crew chief sends out emails with rules and situations, he almost always responds and gives a through explanation. So if I was wrong he would tell me that is what he thought. I asked him directly several situations of different first touching spots. I did not tell him about this conversation or the context, I just asked him what would he do and how would you handle it. He did at first say he would mark all those spots, but then when he thought about it, he said, "If I do all of that, I will not have the spot for the end of the kick or the end of the related run that could occur." He even talked briefly about throwing his hat, but then said to me "Why?" Because he realized that they are not going to take the ball at the other spots anyway and the other spots would be more important. I did not direct him in any direction or try to tell him what I would do.

The conversation only took a couple of minutes. BTW he is a college official as well.

Sorry, not taking back a single word. I stand by what I said. And if you did not get it the first time, all those spots are irrelevant to me. There is a dead ball spot and a first touching spot. The furthest most spot for first touching is going to be used and I do not need to bag every single spot. And the vast majority of first touching spots are clearly identifiable. Better yet, I would not have bags for every spot even if I wanted to. I only take three and I have yet to use all three on a single play even with a first touching spots. I stand by what I say, call me wrong but that is what I am going to do. Do you!!!

Peace

I'll give him a 9.8 on the landing. It took a while but he figured out how to give the correct answer without sounding like his first answer was wrong. Very adroit.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'll give him a 9.8 on the landing. It took a while but he figured out how to give the correct answer without sounding like his first answer was wrong. Very adroit.

This song is appropriate.

YouTube - Sidestep - Charles Durning - The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.mp4

[Coach Jinx]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Thank you. I'll accept this as an admission that you agree the second and subsequent spots could also be spots of first touching and the only one that matters is the one that benefits R the most. That is the only one that truly needs a bean bag or some reference to location.

Yes he made it.


Rut riddle me this?:

In the senerio we have where its touched at the 2 (you throw your bag) then the ball hits another K player at the 8 & then R picks up the ball at the 6 & starts running, & returns it to 80 yards. Are you going to drop a second bag or just remember the spot of the 8 in case they fumble & have to go back to that spot? Or are you just gonna stand at the 8 while the play goes on?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'll give him a 9.8 on the landing. It took a while but he figured out how to give the correct answer without sounding like his first answer was wrong. Very adroit.

..... and on the 7th day, the spots became relevant.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Jinx

Yes he made it.


Rut riddle me this?:

In the senerio we have where its touched at the 2 (you throw your bag) then the ball hits another K player at the 8 & then R picks up the ball at the 6 & starts running, & returns it to 80 yards. Are you going to drop a second bag or just remember the spot of the 8 in case they fumble & have to go back to that spot? Or are you just gonna stand at the 8 while the play goes on?

You are better than me right. Then you do not need my answer. Oh, but you are in Joliet tonight.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Thank you. I'll accept this as an admission that you agree the second and subsequent spots could also be spots of first touching and the only one that matters is the one that benefits R the most. That is the only one that truly needs a bean bag or some reference to location.

How is this any different from what I said at the beginning?

This is the quote of what I said.

The only key that matters is where the ball is "first touched" and where the ball becomes dead. The feet play no role in if the ball is considered in the EZ, only the ball matters. We have a rule called "first touching" and that is a spot where the kicking team first touches the ball. That spot might be used or the dead ball spot might be used, which is advantageous to the receiving team. The bottom line is we try to be on or near the goal line so we can determine where the ball goes in the EZ or not.

I am trying to figure out what else did I say that was different? Very first response to the question from the OPer (who still has not commented once in this thread).
Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How is this any different from what I said at the beginning?

This is the quote of what I said.



I am trying to figure out what else did I say that was different? Very first response to the question from the OPer (who still has not commented once in this thread).
Peace

Jeff, mbcrowder said

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Like I said in the previous post, you could have simply said "every time K touches the ball in FED it's referred to as 'first touching'" ... but no ... you had to be you.

to which you replied

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, because that is not how I understand the rule or how I enforce the rule or explain the rule. Never have and never will. There is a dead ball spot and a spot of first touching. Pick the one that works for the receiving team and move on. I have never heard it explained the way you did until this very thread.

Only now you say

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The furthest most spot for first touching is going to be used and I do not need to bag every single spot. And the vast majority of first touching spots are clearly identifiable.

Which I think most of us agree is not only correct (except maybe the bagging bit) but not what you said originally.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Which I think most of us agree is not only correct (except maybe the bagging bit) but not what you said originally.

But I was told that the bagging bit was wrong too by several people. I simply used a rulebook term and was even criticized for doing that by someone because the OPer did not understand the term as they were not football official as well.

I even had two people PM me because they think I agree with them, but I did not use the language they wanted to hear to make them happy. Comical on so many levels.

This is why I cannot, will not or refuse to worry about what people here say because if I did I would be paralyzed with not commenting on anything. Please stop saying what everyone would do or say when you cannot even get right what we “disagreed” on. It does not work when I used to say it; it is not going to work now. I do what the people around me do and approve not what some people I will never work with or deal with in my officiating. Even the guy that is in Joliet (as if I would care).

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record, the spot of first touching would be the 1 (which is the only place you have a bean bag). The dead ball spot would be wherever the kick ended or the play was over (receivers taking the ball and running). The other touches in your case are not relevant unless these are the places the ball is ruled dead. I do not know what others do and actually do not care. But I am bagging the spot of FT with a bean bag and bagging or killing the play where the kick ends if necessary. I do not understand why this is difficult to understand or why the explanation is contentious. And if the receiving team picked up the ball and ran and fumbles (or muffed the ball) you give the ball back to R at the spot of first touching.Peace

Hmmm...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Hmmm...

I just wanted to get to 100 replies. And you PMed me because your feelings were hurt.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Back in post #25, JRut responded to this mbcrowder post:

So, just to make clear that I understand that you rule this different from the other FED folks here... you're saying that in the situation I describe (again... ball first touched by K at the 1, tapped backward to keep it from going into the EZ, touched again by K at the 4, rolls to the 2 and is dead there) - you only look at the 1 or 2 as possible spots?

This was your reply:

For the record, the spot of first touching would be the 1 (which is the only place you have a bean bag). The dead ball spot would be wherever the kick ended or the play was over (receivers taking the ball and running). The other touches in your case are not relevant unless these are the places the ball is ruled dead. I do not know what others do and actually do not care. But I am bagging the spot of FT with a bean bag and bagging or killing the play where the kick ends if necessary.

At that point you were very clearly saying the subsequent spots of first touching did not matter and you are giving R the ball at the R2. Then you finally said:

The furthest most spot for first touching is going to be used

That is exactly the point myself and others were trying to make but you argued against it. I am glad we are now in agreement.

[Coach Jinx]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are better than me right. Then you do not need my answer. Oh, but you are in Joliet tonight.

Peace

I am. I will be in Joliet Sat night.

Anyway Mr. Bigshot help us with your mighty wisdom, you can't because it proves your wrong. Your avoiding the question doesn't make you seem anything but wrong.

Again, K touches at the 2, you have to bag because you don't know what else is going to happen, then the ball bounces off K at the 8, you have to bag because you don't know whats going to happen, then R picks it up at the 6 you have to bag because that is the end of the kick & we may have to go back to that spot for PSK. If you don't, your mechanics are terrible.

If R runs it 50 yards and fumbles your just going back to the 8 from memory? If there was a psk foul during the kick after the long run your just going back to the 6 from memory? I've seen you work & talk in pre-game, your not that smart & it doesn't make sense to do it that way. You have 3 bags, use them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Jinx

I am. I will be in Joliet Sat night.

Anyway Mr. Bigshot help us with your mighty wisdom, you can't because it proves your wrong. Your avoiding the question doesn't make you seem anything but wrong.

Why would I go there? I will be south tonight and tomorrow. Have a great weekend.

Peace

[Coach Jinx]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why would I go there? I will be south tonight and tomorrow. Have a great weekend.

Peace

just keep avoiding the question, stop actin like a baby & be a grown axx man & answer the question

3 bean bags, if not, your wrong