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-   -   Defense encroachment called too late. (https://forum.officiating.com/football/59018-defense-encroachment-called-too-late.html)

verticalStripes Sat Sep 04, 2010 09:40pm

Defense encroachment called too late.
 
Fed Rules.

In a varisity game, a newer official called defensive encroachment as a live ball foul after the play has started. Obviously, this is a dead-ball foul using NFHS rules and the play SHOULD have been shutdown. After the play, the crew discussed how to enforce the penalty. On the play, the runner gained three yards. The crew enforced this as a live ball foul from the previous spot and replayed the down.

This happens quite often with newer officials at the lower levels. How would you enforce (or not) this in a varsity game?

waltjp Sat Sep 04, 2010 09:44pm

Nothing wrong with the enforcement but I would have put a few seconds back on the clock.

Rob S Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:51pm

We had the same thing last night, but instead of a 3 yard gain, it was about 60 yards for a TD. The official claimed he blew his whistle to stop the play, but no one on the field heard it. We ended up enforcing the penality, which made the home team (A) fans rather unhappy. But we just went by the rules; the play never happened.

mbyron Sun Sep 05, 2010 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S (Post 691165)
We had the same thing last night, but instead of a 3 yard gain, it was about 60 yards for a TD. The official claimed he blew his whistle to stop the play, but no one on the field heard it. We ended up enforcing the penality, which made the home team (A) fans rather unhappy. But we just went by the rules; the play never happened.

So you put time back on the clock?

ajmc Sun Sep 05, 2010 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S (Post 691165)
We had the same thing last night, but instead of a 3 yard gain, it was about 60 yards for a TD. The official claimed he blew his whistle to stop the play, but no one on the field heard it. We ended up enforcing the penality, which made the home team (A) fans rather unhappy. But we just went by the rules; the play never happened.

You have to enforce the penalty, and whatever the results of the action, the play, in fact, never happened. To avoid this, the calling official has to stay on the line and continue blowing his whistle and signalling time out UNTIL the action stops.

Of course once any of the other officials hears that whistle, or sees the time out signal, they should also blow their whistles and signal Time Out UNTIL the action stops.

You have to keep reminding yourself, it's not your whistle that kills the play. The whistle only alerts everybody that the defensive player who encroached has killed the play.

Rob S Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:47am

Looking back, we technically should have put the time back on the clock, but we didn't. We were too busy dealing with the fact that we knew we basically had to penalize the offense (or so it seemed to fans and the teams) for a defensive encroachment foul because the play never should have happened. There was no doubt among the R, U, and me as what we needed to do.

I think our HL (who made the call) was timid about blowing his whistle on that play because he had an IW earlier in the game on an illegal formation penality. Not an excuse, but it certainly was not a good first half for him.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 05, 2010 04:42pm

Pick it up, wave it off, and take his flag from him! :)

verticalStripes Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:28am

I agree with Bktballref. Pick it up and eat it. To make matters worse, the coach of B in the situation I described requested a coach-referee conference to discuss a misapplication of a rule!

bisonlj Mon Sep 06, 2010 02:15pm

This happened in my son's game last year when his team was on defense. The official who threw the flag was not a licensed official. Just some guy who watches football on TV and bought a shirt. The other two officials were experienced and discussed it. Since it was a 3rd grade game and the encroachment had no impact on the play, they chose to let it stand. They knew the correct call would have been to kill the play before it happened but in this case I understood what they were doing even if it was technically wrong. The one thing they did wrong was signal the penalty was declined. They probably should have waved off the flag. For any HS game (varsity or sub-varsity), I would definitely bring this back.

ajmc Mon Sep 06, 2010 02:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by verticalStripes (Post 691257)
I agree with Bktballref. Pick it up and eat it. To make matters worse, the coach of B in the situation I described requested a coach-referee conference to discuss a misapplication of a rule!

You both lost me on this. The original indicates this was a Varsity HS game. Clearly a rule was misapplied, as the defensive encroachment (not the official's flag or whistle) killed this play before it began. The play, nor any yardage gained or lost, actually ever happened.

You have to enforce the penalty as a dead ball foul, from the previous spot and take whatever lumps you have coming and then move on with a clear conscience and perhaps a tiny bit of scar tissue you'll carry forward as a reminder.


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