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-   -   Illegal / First Touching (https://forum.officiating.com/football/55827-illegal-first-touching.html)

Sonofanump Sat Dec 12, 2009 04:10pm
Illegal / First Touching
 
Watching the Grand Valley vs NW Mo St. game.

Remember guys, first touching is a violation, not a foul, there should be a bag down, not a flag.

/end my weeky TV announcer rant.

jaybird Sat Dec 12, 2009 07:17pm
Good game and the best part was I had it muted!

TXMike Sun Dec 13, 2009 09:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofanump (Post 642061)
Watching the Grand Valley vs NW Mo St. game.

Remember guys, first touching is a violation, not a foul, there should be a bag down, not a flag.

/end my weeky TV announcer rant.
Do you recall when in the game this happened?

Sonofanump Sun Dec 13, 2009 09:33pm
4:26 in the fourth. It was the on side kick attempt after the last GVSU score.

TXMike Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:37pm
YouTube - Onside KO

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Stripes2 Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:54pm
In the video the H is digging for his beanbag. Why doesn't he have it in his hand before the kick, toss it, and keep officiating?

jaybird Mon Dec 14, 2009 01:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes2 (Post 642417)
In the video the H is digging for his beanbag. Why doesn't he have it in his hand before the kick, toss it, and keep officiating?
That was the SJ. There was a flag but there was also a bean bag at the top of the numbers. Apparently, the official was initially confused and tossed a flag, but then followed that up by dropping a bean bag and picking up the flag. That's not the first time I've seen it happen.

TXMike Mon Dec 14, 2009 05:39am
Official on Team B restraininig line dropped the bag (after he could dig it out) and the official on the Team restraining line dropped the flag as he moved into the pile

ump33 Mon Dec 14, 2009 07:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes2 (Post 642417)
In the video the H is digging for his beanbag. Why doesn't he have it in his hand before the kick, toss it, and keep officiating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMike (Post 642441)
Official on Team B restraininig line dropped the bag (after he could dig it out) and the official on the Team restraining line dropped the flag as he moved into the pile
When we suspect an onsides kick, the official(s) on R's restraining line will hold a bean bag in the hand closest to the kicking team. If the ball is touched by K on the "bean bag hand" side of R's restraining line, we have First Touching. If touched by K at R's restraining line or the "empty hand side", we wind the clock.

It is a nice mechanic, once you get used to it.

DeepWing55 Mon Dec 14, 2009 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes2 (Post 642417)
In the video the H is digging for his beanbag. Why doesn't he have it in his hand before the kick, toss it, and keep officiating?
This is a basic mechanic, especially when you are expecting an onside kick.

Sonofanump Mon Dec 14, 2009 02:45pm
As a deep wing in 7 man and being on the "R" line I have my hand on the bag for all free kicks.

bigjohn Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:44am
If the kick is ungrounded and short of the Free Kick line, it is a flag and a bag!

KCI and First touching, right?

ajmc Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 642722)
If the kick is ungrounded and short of the Free Kick line, it is a flag and a bag! KCI and First touching, right?
It would be both KCI and first touching. One of the options available for the KCI penalty is R accepting a Fair Catch from the spot which would provide an advantage over simply accepting the spot of 1st touching, as the penalty allows R to choose to put the ball inplay by snap or free kick.

ump33 Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 642722)
If the kick is ungrounded and short of the Free Kick line, it is a flag and a bag!

KCI and First touching, right?
Good point. However, I would only throw the flag when K touches a kick in the air and report/enforce as KCI. Also, less than 10 yds no wind, if 10 yds or more wind the clock.

Welpe Tue Dec 15, 2009 01:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 642722)
If the kick is ungrounded and short of the Free Kick line, it is a flag and a bag!

KCI and First touching, right?
Technically, yes. I only drop a flag though as the bag is redundant.


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