Penalty enforcement

[habram]

If a flag is thrown for celebrating after a touchdown , do you still mark the penalty or wave it off ,if the touchdown is called back

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by habram

If a flag is thrown for celebrating after a touchdown , do you still mark the penalty or wave it off ,if the touchdown is called back

If the TD is called back does that mean they never exhibited USC?

[Durham]

Dead ball foul, still gonna get enforced.

[habram]

Originally Posted by Durham

Dead ball foul, still gonna get enforced.

thanks for the reply

[habram]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If the TD is called back does that mean they never exhibited USC?

thanks for the reply

[ljudge]

Team B would most likely make them try from the 18 but they can elect to make them kick from the 25 on the subsequent kickoff.

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by ljudge

Team B would most likely make them try from the 18 but they can elect to make them kick from the 25 on the subsequent kickoff.

I think he's saying there was a foul on A during the play, nullifying the TD.

[chymechowder]

that's a good question. never thought of that. so youre saying:

during a 30 yd TD pass, team A holds. and the receiver, after crossing the goal line spikes the ball.

strictly speaking, you back them up 10, then back them up an additional 15 for the dead ball USC, and replay the down.

but in a high school game, I think some crews might "quietly pick up" the USC flag here and just enforce the hold.

while technically not the correct thing, the thinking being that nullifying the TD and assessing 10 yards is enough of a penalty. (note: if it was a dead ball personal foul on team A, then yeah, we're walking off 25).

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

but in a high school game, I think some crews might "quietly pick up" the USC flag here and just enforce the hold.

I have no doubt you're correct about that but they shouldn't.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

that's a good question. never thought of that. so youre saying:

during a 30 yd TD pass, team A holds. and the receiver, after crossing the goal line spikes the ball.

strictly speaking, you back them up 10, then back them up an additional 15 for the dead ball USC, and replay the down.

but in a high school game, I think some crews might "quietly pick up" the USC flag here and just enforce the hold.

while technically not the correct thing, the thinking being that nullifying the TD and assessing 10 yards is enough of a penalty. (note: if it was a dead ball personal foul on team A, then yeah, we're walking off 25).

During a NCAA game this year (maybe a Thursday night ESPN game), a U of Cincinnati receiver caught a ball and attempted to get to the goal line. He thought he did, ripped off his helmet and USC celebrated. After review of the play, it was determined that he was out at the one. A's ball, first and ten from the 16.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

During a NCAA game this year (maybe a Thursday night ESPN game), a U of Cincinnati receiver caught a ball and attempted to get to the goal line. He thought he did, ripped off his helmet and USC celebrated. After review of the play, it was determined that he was out at the one. A's ball, first and ten from the 16.

Both enforcements are essentially the same. In the original sample play, the holding penalty, during the live ball, negates the apparent TD and is enforced from the spot of the foul (if during a run), previous spot (if during a pass), and the down is repeated. After that live ball foul is enforced, the dead ball foul is enforced from the subsequent spot.

In your example, there was no live ball foul, the play simply ended at the 1 yard line. After the play, the dead ball foul is enforced from the subsequent spot.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Both enforcements are essentially the same. In the original sample play, the holding penalty, during the live ball, negates the apparent TD and is enforced from the spot of the foul (if during a run), previous spot (if during a pass), and the down is repeated. After that live ball foul is enforced, the dead ball foul is enforced from the subsequent spot.

In your example, there was no live ball foul, the play simply ended at the 1 yard line. After the play, the dead ball foul is enforced from the subsequent spot.

You are 100% correct but you missed his point. He was commenting on a play where a player would be penalized for celebrating a TD that didn't actually happen because of the live ball foul. Depending on the situation and the extent of the celebration, you might let that go.

Along the same lines, what if a player is ruled down by contact or stepped out of bounds but he continues to run. If there is no immediate whistle and it may not be obvious to the defensive players the down has ended, do you give the defense a little more leniency on a hit that occurs while the offensive player is still running?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

that's a good question. never thought of that. so youre saying:

during a 30 yd TD pass, team A holds. and the receiver, after crossing the goal line spikes the ball.

strictly speaking, you back them up 10, then back them up an additional 15 for the dead ball USC, and replay the down.

but in a high school game, I think some crews might "quietly pick up" the USC flag here and just enforce the hold.

while technically not the correct thing, the thinking being that nullifying the TD and assessing 10 yards is enough of a penalty. (note: if it was a dead ball personal foul on team A, then yeah, we're walking off 25).

I don't understand the logic of quietly picking up the flag. Suppose the player turned around, saw an official signaling holding to the ref, and then spiked the ball? If "some crews" would enforce that USC, why would they not enforce the USC under the conditions stated above?

Why not let team B decide if the 10 yard penalty was enough? Couldn't they decline the dead ball USC if they thought that was too much, the way some players will deliberately miss a technical foul shot in basketball if they think the other team was unfairly penalized?

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I don't understand the logic of quietly picking up the flag. Suppose the player turned around, saw an official signaling holding to the ref, and then spiked the ball? If "some crews" would enforce that USC, why would they not enforce the USC under the conditions stated above?

Why not let team B decide if the 10 yard penalty was enough? Couldn't they decline the dead ball USC if they thought that was too much, the way some players will deliberately miss a technical foul shot in basketball if they think the other team was unfairly penalized?

I don't see that happening.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

You are 100% correct but you missed his point. He was commenting on a play where a player would be penalized for celebrating a TD that didn't actually happen because of the live ball foul. Depending on the situation and the extent of the celebration, you might let that go.

Along the same lines, what if a player is ruled down by contact or stepped out of bounds but he continues to run. If there is no immediate whistle and it may not be obvious to the defensive players the down has ended, do you give the defense a little more leniency on a hit that occurs while the offensive player is still running?

The original question included that a flag for celebration was thrown. I presume all the factors regarding the extent of the celebration were taken into consideration before deciding whether or not a flag was called for. Once the flag is thrown, for whatever behavior was displayed, I would not consider ignoring, or reversing, it because the outcome of the play changed.

Unfortunately for the player, the undoing of an otherwise score only highlites and magnifies the ignorance of the celebration.