Ravens / Steelers was the spot ok

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Hi guys:

I am from the baseball side but would like clarification from last nights Ravens / Steelers game.

The reason I am curious is because of what Al Michaels said about the ruling. On the baseball side we get 'all over" McCarver whenever he says something that we know is simply not true so that's my main reason for asking.

The play happened at the end of the game. It was 3rd and something and Flacco got sacked and fumbled the ball forward where the Ravens recovered it. The Ravens quickly got their field goal team onto the field and attempted a game ending 55/56 yard field goal that fell short.

After commercial, Michaels said that there would have been "hell to pay" had that field goal been good because in the last 2 minutes of the game if the ball is fumbled forward and recovered by anyone other then one who fumbled the ball then the ball is to be placed back where the fumble began, hence the field goal would have been some 59 or 60 yards.

Is this correct?

Thanks guys

Pete Booth

I know that is true on any fumble that goes out of bounds. Not sure if it applies in this case but that does sound familiar. They were trying to get it spotted quickly because of the time remaining on the clock so the only way to correct it would have been to stop the clock and re-spot it or re-spot it without stopping the clock which would have likely ended the game with no kick attempt.

[HLin NC]

That's the good ole Stabler Holy Roller Rule. I heard a lot of babbling on the t.v. but didn't really pay attention to the spot. Guess its something Rich can address with Mike P. on Official Review this Wed. night.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

They were trying to get it spotted quickly because of the time remaining on the clock so the only way to correct it would have been to stop the clock and re-spot it or re-spot it without stopping the clock which would have likely ended the game with no kick attempt.

I agree. In the moment, they did their best to get the ball spotted for the next play.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

I agree. In the moment, they did their best to get the ball spotted for the next play.

Just a general observation, but anytime you change your pace, specifically to accomodate either team, you automatically provide an unearned advantage to one team which is invariably an unearned disadvantage to the other team.

If the pace is steady and the clock runs out, the clock runs out. Neither team was given an advantage nor suffered from a disadvantage.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Just a general observation, but anytime you change your pace, specifically to accomodate either team, you automatically provide an unearned advantage to one team which is invariably an unearned disadvantage to the other team.

If the pace is steady and the clock runs out, the clock runs out. Neither team was given an advantage nor suffered from a disadvantage.

With a 40 second clock, the goal is to spot the ball ASAP since we have no RFP whistle.

I can see you point for NFHS rules, not NCAA or NFL.

[twref]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Just a general observation, but anytime you change your pace, specifically to accomodate either team, you automatically provide an unearned advantage to one team which is invariably an unearned disadvantage to the other team.

If the pace is steady and the clock runs out, the clock runs out. Neither team was given an advantage nor suffered from a disadvantage.

Respectfully-I disagree with this premise. I believe there is an expectation that, in a hurry up situation at the end of a half/game, we will get the ball placed and made ready for play as soon as all officials are in a position to officiate.
Falls in the "We'd do the same for you Coach" file

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Just a general observation, but anytime you change your pace, specifically to accomodate either team, you automatically provide an unearned advantage to one team which is invariably an unearned disadvantage to the other team.

If the pace is steady and the clock runs out, the clock runs out. Neither team was given an advantage nor suffered from a disadvantage.

Disagree to an extent. If a team is trying to run out the clock (nobody is in hurry-up), then keep the same exact pace as you did the whole game.

However, if the O is in hurry-up, get that ball spotted quickly and blown in as soon as your guys are ready.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Disagree to an extent. If a team is trying to run out the clock (nobody is in hurry-up), then keep the same exact pace as you did the whole game.

However, if the O is in hurry-up, get that ball spotted quickly and blown in as soon as your guys are ready.

The way to avoid problems is to, "get that ball spotted quickly and blown in as soon as your guys are ready" throughout the game. That way the pace you've set doesn't require alteration regardless of what either team does.

Altering your pace, to specifically accomodate the preference of one team, is clearly providing that team with a benefit, if the alteration puts the opponent at ANY disadvantage.

[golfnref]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The way to avoid problems is to, "get that ball spotted quickly and blown in as soon as your guys are ready" throughout the game. That way the pace you've set doesn't require alteration regardless of what either team does.

Altering your pace, to specifically accomodate the preference of one team, is clearly providing that team with a benefit, if the alteration puts the opponent at ANY disadvantage.

ajmc, this topic relates to the NFL. In the last two minutes of a half every effort is made to spot the ball as quickly as possible. When a first down is made and the ball is respotted for the succeeding down, if the down marker has not caught up with the play, the head linesman places his bean bag on the ground at the new line of scrimmage. This allows play to continue without delay. In addition, if the offense gets in position and snaps the ball before all members of the defensive team have taken their proper positions on their side of the line, play is stopped and the defense is penalized for offside. Clock stops and starts on the snap. Does this seem to accomodate the preference of one team? Does it provide that team with a benefit? Does it have the potential to put the opponent at a disadvantage? The answer to each question is yes. But it is the way NFL plays the game. They apparently have no problem with it.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by golfnref

ajmc, this topic relates to the NFL. Does it have the potential to put the opponent at a disadvantage? The answer to each question is yes. But it is the way NFL plays the game. They apparently have no problem with it.

As sometimes happens with these discussions, the topic drifts to areas that most are more familiar with. Apologies to any NFL officials who I may have confused.

[bossman72]

8-7-6

Article 6 Fumble After Two-Minute Warning. If a fumble by either team occurs after
the two-minute warning:
(a) The ball may be advanced by any opponent.
(b) The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover
and advance the ball.
(c) If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead,
and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery
if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by bossman72

8-7-6

Article 6 Fumble After Two-Minute Warning. If a fumble by either team occurs after
the two-minute warning:
(a) The ball may be advanced by any opponent.
(b) The player who fumbled is the only player of his team who is permitted to recover
and advance the ball.
(c) If the recovery or catch is by a teammate of the player who fumbled, the ball is dead,
and the spot of the next snap is the spot of the fumble, or the spot of the recovery
if the spot of the recovery is behind the spot of the fumble.

So is there any rule similar to this in NFHS? I had a coach ask that during a JV game where, on a 3rd and 1, the QB fumbled the snap and the ball bounced forward back through the center's legs then the QB dove on it past the LTG, 1st down. We have anything? It wasn't on purpose so I think not.

I don't think this should be penalized because there's no way any coach is stupid enough to fumble a ball on purpose. But I seem to remember that the act of throwing the ball forward out-of-bounds to either gain yardage or stop the clock is a foul. True? Reference?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

So is there any rule similar to this in NFHS? I had a coach ask that during a JV game where, on a 3rd and 1, the QB fumbled the snap and the ball bounced forward back through the center's legs then the QB dove on it past the LTG, 1st down. We have anything? It wasn't on purpose so I think not.

I don't think this should be penalized because there's no way any coach is stupid enough to fumble a ball on purpose. But I seem to remember that the act of throwing the ball forward out-of-bounds to either gain yardage or stop the clock is a foul. True? Reference?

No fumble recovery restrictions exist under the NFHS code.

Throwing a forward pass incomplete deliberately to save either time or yardage is an Illegal forward Pass NF: 7-52-a through e.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by ajmc

No fumble recovery restrictions exist under the NFHS code.

Throwing a forward pass incomplete deliberately to save either time or yardage is an Illegal forward Pass NF: 7-52-a through e.

Thanks. What about throwing the ball backward OB? Simply wind it and spot where it went out?

[HLin NC]

There is no penalty for throwing a backward pass OB.