Is illegal batting directly from a punt administered as a PSK

[goodsir]

Just a reminder I am not a HS official.

a.) During a punt from K's 49(for some reason or another) directly from K, A2 at A' s 5 illegally bats a ball through the back of his own end zone.

b.) During a punt from K's 49 directly to A2 inside his own end zone illegally bats the ball through the back of the end zone.

I am sure most of the time we will not have illegal bating but rather a muff, but i am sure there will be one time when this happens.

Now in a.) if the penalty is declined it would be a safety right. Because the illegal batting was the new force which put the ball into the back of the end zone. And in B.) if the penalty is declined it would be a touch back since K put the force on the ball that got it into the end zone.

Now my question is, since these penalties are against R, aren't they PSK fouls since they were lose ball fouls made by team R before possession by R in both cases? So in a.) wouldn't the basic spot be in R's end zone since the force that but the ball into the end zone was caused by R. So a penalty accepted or declined in a.) would be a safety?

In b.) if the penalty is accepted,the basic spot would be R's 20 because of the touchback but the penalty occurred in R's end zone behind the basic spot thus, a safety?

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by goodsir

Just a reminder I am not a HS official.

a.) During a punt from K's 49(for some reason or another) directly from K, A2 at A' s 5 illegally bats a ball through the back of his own end zone.

b.) During a punt from K's 49 directly to A2 inside his own end zone illegally bats the ball through the back of the end zone.

I am sure most of the time we will not have illegal bating but rather a muff, but i am sure there will be one time when this happens.

Now in a.) if the penalty is declined it would be a safety right. Because the illegal batting was the new force which put the ball into the back of the end zone. And in B.) if the penalty is declined it would be a touch back since K put the force on the ball that got it into the end zone.

Now my question is, since these penalties are against R, aren't they PSK fouls since they were lose ball fouls made by team R before possession by R in both cases? So in a.) wouldn't the basic spot be in R's end zone since the force that but the ball into the end zone was caused by R. So a penalty accepted or declined in a.) would be a safety?

In b.) if the penalty is accepted,the basic spot would be R's 20 because of the touchback but the penalty occurred in R's end zone behind the basic spot thus, a safety?

Interesting scenarios. I'm not exactly sure I'm correct on this, but I'll give it a go. Let's start with a:
Table 6-4 states,

"A kick ends when a player gains possession or when the ball becomes dead by rule. R gains possession of the ball when a player of
R catches or recovers the live ball.
IF THE KICK BECOMES DEAD IN R’S END ZONE
Touchback in all cases unless a field goal is scored.

Therefore, the PSK enforcement spot would be R's 20.

9-7-2 says,

No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in flight, or a low scrimmage kick in flight which he is attempting to block in or behind the expanded neutral zone.

So, I would agree with you this is illegal batting as you described in the OP. IB is a 15-yard penalty, but since the enforcement spot is R's 20, penalize half-the-distance and it will be R's ball 1st and 10 from the 10.

In b), since the kick is dead as soon as the kick crosses the goal line, there can be no penalty. It is a touchback and R gets the ball 1st and 10 from their 20.

[kdf5]

The ball will be a touchback when it crosses the goal line since it's a touchback regardless of who put the force on it. In a) the basic spot is the 20 but the bat happened at the 5 so the spot of the foul is behind the basic spot and it will be R's ball at the 2 1/2. In b) it's simply a touchback unless the bat was so flagrant that you'd call it unsportsmanlike conduct, in which case it's enforced from the succeeding spot, the 20.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by kdf5

The ball will be a touchback when it crosses the goal line since it's a touchback regardless of who put the force on it. In a) the basic spot is the 20 but the bat happened at the 5 so the spot of the foul is behind the basic spot and it will be R's ball at the 2 1/2. In b) it's simply a touchback unless the bat was so flagrant that you'd call it unsportsmanlike conduct, in which case it's enforced from the succeeding spot, the 20.

Good catch, kdf. You're right on a). R's at the 2 1/2. (Dang it!! Thought I had that one.)

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Good catch, kdf. You're right on a). R's at the 2 1/2. (Dang it!! Thought I had that one.)

He's right on "b" as well. The kick was dead when it crossed the goal line, so unless you can make a dead ball foul out of the bat, r simply slapped a dead ball.