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-   -   Interesting KO situation (NFHS) (https://forum.officiating.com/football/55271-interesting-ko-situation-nfhs.html)

ppaltice Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:54am

Interesting KO situation (NFHS)
 
Field is very muddy. Team K is lined up to KO from their 40 yard line. As K1 approaches the ball, he slips and slides into the ball. Ball goes about 2 yards and K2 falls on the ball at K43 yard line. BJ blows the whistle.

What do you have (NFHS rules)?

bigjohn Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:02am

Since the ball was never KICKED it is encroachment. Unless the kicker was the only one to cross the free kick line. Then it would be a plain do over just like the ball fell off the tee.


ART. 3 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and until it is kicked, no player,
other than the kicker and the holder for a place kick may be beyond his freekick
line.

bigjohn Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:05am

unless the ball was struck with the lower leg. Then it is first touching, Rs ball.


SECTION 24 KICKS
ART. 1 . . . A kick is the intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg
or foot.

Bullycon Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:12am

Encroachment. A free kick must be a legal kick. (2-24-3) A legal kick is intentional. (2-24-1) Sliding into a ball is not intentional. A kicker is a player who makes a legal kick. A legal kick was not made. Therefore, the would-be kicker has encroached. (6-1-3)

Technically, anyway. I'd probably just reset the play clock and re-kick.

DocLogic Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:36am

Blow it dead and give the kicker a do over.

No penalty...... a little common sense should take priority over an encroachment penalty.

bigjohn Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:55pm

bully, can you call encroachment on the kicker? not by rule. I POSTED 6-1-3 ABOVE

ART. 3 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and until it is kicked, no player,
other than the kicker and the holder for a place kick may be beyond his freekick
line.

mbyron Tue Nov 03, 2009 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 634387)
bully, can you call encroachment on the kicker? not by rule. I POSTED 6-1-3 ABOVE

ART. 3 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and until it is kicked, no player,
other than the kicker and the holder for a place kick may be beyond his freekick
line.

Yes, it's possible for the kicker to encroach. The exception here allows the kicker to step into the NZ as he kicks the ball without encroaching. If he otherwise enters the NZ that would be encroachment.

bigjohn Tue Nov 03, 2009 02:07pm

you gotta rule or casebook play?

OK, I get it, he didn't kick the ball so he is not the KICKER!

mbyron Tue Nov 03, 2009 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 634409)
you gotta rule or casebook play?

OK, I get it, he didn't kick the ball so he is not the KICKER!

NOW you're thinking like an official. :cool:

bigjohn Tue Nov 03, 2009 02:32pm

ouch!:rolleyes:

ppaltice Tue Nov 03, 2009 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 634387)
bully, can you call encroachment on the kicker? not by rule. I POSTED 6-1-3 ABOVE

ART. 3 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and until it is kicked, no player,
other than the kicker and the holder for a place kick may be beyond his freekick
line.

That is a good question and that was brought up by one of the officials.

The answer is no, you cannot have encroachment on the kicker. But, in this case, we did not have a kicker. K1 wanted to be the kicker, but he never kicked the ball.

So, I believe the correct ruling on the play is encroachment by K, 5yards and rekick.

This was Pop Warner level, so we just did a rekick with no penalty (and no complaints).

Robert Goodman Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullycon (Post 634356)
A legal kick is intentional. (2-24-1) Sliding into a ball is not intentional.

I'm not sure about that. The player did initially intend to kick the ball. How long before contacting it must the player's intention have changed? It could very well be just a kick with bad form. Hmmm...a lot like deciding whether a baseball batter checked a swing or offered at the ball.

Bullycon Wed Nov 04, 2009 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 634490)
I'm not sure about that. The player did initially intend to kick the ball. How long before contacting it must the player's intention have changed? It could very well be just a kick with bad form. Hmmm...a lot like deciding whether a baseball batter checked a swing or offered at the ball.

Judgment call. If he slips just after his plant foot hits the ground, causing an off-balance kick, I can see that being a legal free kick. If he slips down before then and slides into the ball, I have no kick.

I wonder if there is any instructional film on this. It'd be nice to have an official philosophy to use on this.

ajmc Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullycon (Post 634523)
Judgment call. If he slips just after his plant foot hits the ground, causing an off-balance kick, I can see that being a legal free kick. If he slips down before then and slides into the ball, I have no kick.

I wonder if there is any instructional film on this. It'd be nice to have an official philosophy to use on this.

I think you nailed it with your first two words, "judgment call". That's what we get paid for, that's why we're there. The current official philosophy is, "make the call".


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