Invalid Fair Catch Signal???

[GPC2]

My play: K punted the ball to R. The ball was high, but a tad shorter than R11 expected it to be. The ball hit the ground and then R11 gave a legal fair catch signal, but didn't recover the ball. The ball was subsequently downed by K.

My question: is this nothing or is this an Invalid Fair Catch Signal?


Rule 2-9-4c states: An invalid fair-catch signal is any signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recovered after the kick has touched the ground.


Well, in my situation, the kick was never recovered after the kick touched the ground.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by GPC2

My play: K punted the ball to R. The ball was high, but a tad shorter than R11 expected it to be. The ball hit the ground and then R11 gave a legal fair catch signal, but didn't recover the ball. The ball was subsequently downed by K.

My question: is this nothing or is this an Invalid Fair Catch Signal?


Rule 2-9-4c states: An invalid fair-catch signal is any signal by a receiver before the kick is caught or recovered after the kick has touched the ground.


Well, in my situation, the kick was never recovered after the kick touched the ground.

Am I missing something? You state, "The ball was subsequently downed by K.". NF: 2-36-1 defines "A recovery is gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground....."

NF: 4-2-2-f advises, "The ball becomes dead and the down is ended: (f) when the kickers catch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the Neutral Zone and when the kickers are first to touch a scrimmage kick after it has come to rest beyond the NZ between the goal lines."

"Downing" is an unofficial term commonly used to refer to K's securing possession of either a free or scrimmage kick.

[GPC2]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Am I missing something? You state, "The ball was subsequently downed by K.". NF: 2-36-1 defines "A recovery is gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground....."

NF: 4-2-2-f advises, "The ball becomes dead and the down is ended: (f) when the kickers catch or recover a scrimmage kick beyond the Neutral Zone and when the kickers are first to touch a scrimmage kick after it has come to rest beyond the NZ between the goal lines."

"Downing" is an unofficial term commonly used to refer to K's securing possession of either a free or scrimmage kick.

Maybe I am being too technical. But K just touched the ball down after it had come to rest. They never actually "recovered" the ball. I thought it was Invalid Fair Catch signal, but there was discussion that since it wasn't recovered there was no foul.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by GPC2

Maybe I am being too technical. But K just touched the ball down after it had come to rest. They never actually "recovered" the ball.

Either the ball was already dead and their touching it came afterward, or they recovered it, or you had an inadvertent whistle. Probably K's touching the ball down constituted recovery.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by GPC2

Maybe I am being too technical. But K just touched the ball down after it had come to rest. They never actually "recovered" the ball. I thought it was Invalid Fair Catch signal, but there was discussion that since it wasn't recovered there was no foul.

I believe the rule states that an invalid fair catch is a catch AFTER it hit the ground and BEFORE it was recovered. Whether or not it was subsequently recovered has no influence on the call. If the kid signaled for a fair catch while the ball was loose on the ground, it's an invalid fair catch.

Now, if R had signalled AFTER another R had picked it up, then we have an ILLEGAL fair catch. 2-9-5 . . . An illegal fair-catch signal is any signal by a runner:
a. After the kick has been caught.
b. After the kick has been recovered.

If R Signals after K touches a ball that has come to rest, or recovers a ball that is rolling on the ground, the action by k has killed the ball, so all we have is an R player waving his hand in the air, no foul.

[ajmc]

An Illegal FC Signal is a foul that can ONLY be committed by the Runner after he has caught or recoverd a kick. If the kick has been caught or recovered by a teammate of the person signalling, then that player would be the runner, rather than the player giving the signal.(NF: 2-9-5)

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by ajmc

An Illegal FC Signal is a foul that can ONLY be committed by the Runner after he has caught or recoverd a kick. If the kick has been caught or recovered by a teammate of the person signalling, then that player would be the runner, rather than the player giving the signal.(NF: 2-9-5)

Ok, I'll give you that, i should have said, "if after R recovered HE gave a signal it would be illegal, not invalid. It still supports the fact that recovering or not recovering has no bearing on whether it's invalid or not.

[gtwbam]

The ruling is an Invalid Fair-catch. When a valid or invalid signal is given,
the ball is dead when caught or recovered anywhere by Team R.
The rule was written so in the event R recovered the ball the play is whistled dead. In your example the ball being downed by K does not absolve R for the illegal Fair-catch signal.