Helping the runner??
 

Here's another video I did.

The 1st part of the video just shows an illegal formation. The only reason I stuck it in there is because the LJ called this foul. Alot of folks think that the umpire is the only one to call that foul. I disagree. In this case, you see wideout on the line and everything is cool. Then he shifts into the backfield and nobody comes up onto the line. By the time all this happened, the umpire was no longer looking out to the wings for guys up on the line. But the LJ was very focused and called this, good job I think.

Then you'll see a player who is ruled down short of the goal line. Another good call, especially when you see the replay. You can see where his knee hits. But the next thing we see is a helping the runner call.I'm the referee and I called this one. The TV crew forgot to bring the microphone on this night. So, you'll see me talking, but can't hear it. Anyway, I've had some criticism on this call. A couple of my elders feel that perhaps I should've passed on this call. I'll go and tell ya, I still feel real good about this call. In fact, I just think its a classic example of helping the runner. This foul is not something I go looking for. In 12 years of officiating I have probably only called helping the runner 2 or 3 times. But when I see it, I know it.

With all that being said, I know that you guys won't hold back. You'll tell me what you REALLY think about it. And thats exactly what I want. I will tell you this (not that it matters much) but the team scored on the very next play.:)

YouTube - illegal formation

Thanks guys!!!

The first part is illegal formation. They only have 6 on the LOS. Question for you. Why does your U call this penalty? I'm on my 3 year as HL and have been taught that is the linemen's call. They are the ones looking across the line. Is this just the way your crew or assn. does it?

I think that is a great call for aiding the runner. Two hands into the runners back is an easy call. Much like Reggie Bush helping Mr. Linart.

Well, in our assoc. the umpire is taught to look out at the wings and see their on/off signals. With this info, he can then make a judgement on how many we have on the line. But I always go over this in pre-game. I believe its a joint responsibility with the L,LJ and U all having a stake in it. I'll say this, the umpire calls this foul 99% of the time.

What the heck was wrong with those announcers? Agreeing 100% with your helping the runner call? Has no one told them that they are supposed to be ignorant and accusatory when you call such a rare foul?

Count me in with those wondering why a U would ever call illegal formation for less than seven men on the line. Seems like a very easy thing for the L and LJ to call, allowing the U to keep his focus on the snapper, linemen and free blocking zone.

Good job on all three plays, though.

Your crew nailed all three calls. Regarding the assisting the runner: I bet the "elders" said something about how the guy was going to score no matter what, his linemen had a great push going and the assistance was not the reason he scored. But I say this is what that rule is intended for, good job.

As for the U calling illegal formation, I disagree and so does the NFHS Officials Manual:
UMPIRE
A. After the ball is spotted:

2. Check the following:

a. Number of A players
b. Five players numbered 50 through 79 on offensive line
c. Interference with the snap, a false start or encroachment
d. Disconcerting signals by B
e. Note position of ball between inbounds lines
f. Note B's players on the LOS in the FBZ

LINESMEN
A. After ball is spotted:

5. Check the following:

d. Minimum of seven offensive players on the LOS

I was impressed that the announcers seemed to know the foul based on the preliminary signal. Maybe they had a signal chart in front of them...

That U must have tremendous depth perception.

I've never heard of the U watching for that. As mentioned above, he should be worrying about G-C-G, snap infractions, etc.

Outstanding spot calling the runner short of the goalline.

As for the assisting the runner foul. I would say technically it was proper but I didn't see any power behind that fullback pushing the QB in the endzone. The line drove the D-line off the ball and the QB easily in.

I know, I know...a couple have said easy call which I guess puts an end to discussion but in my mind that was a bit too technical a call.

Let the lashing begin.

No lashing from me. I wanted ALL comments. I can tell you this, I know I've missed some in my career. Anyone who even thinks they haven't missed a call is way arrogant. But I do think I get more right than wrong. Would the QB have scored without the RB pushing him in? He might have. But we'll never know for sure, because the RB did push him in.

Just because assisting the runner is so infrequently called (or ignored), the assisting would have to be blatant and out in the open for me to call it.

I agree with bossman. I would need to see a lot more "help" before I'm going to call assisting the runner. I'm also amazed that an associtation is teaching their Umpires to call illegal formation with only 6 on the line. I never look wide to see where the receivers are. That is such an easy call for the wing officials.

Canadian Mechanics
 

CANADIAN MECHANICS:

The LJ would flag his eligible leaving the LS which created the illegal formation.

The R would flag the Tandem Buck by the RB.

Both excellent calls.

I called one last year from my R position. QB keeps the ball. Diminutive tailback pushes him with both hands. Pretty easy call. As the tailback was running off the field, I overheard the coach say, "Who are you, Reggie Bush?"

Doc, once again thanks for the video. I think you guys nailed all three. Great call on helping the runner. Replay shows even more the effect of the push. I have never called this, but I would if it was obvious to me. As a mechanic we might tune our eyes to be looking for it on short yardage or goal line siuations especially.

Our terminal officials call the illegal formation and like others here I have never seen a U flag it..but as I tell my crew, as long as we get it right I really don't care who flags it!

My high school coach told me this story once. He said he would always see teams push the runner in, but it never gets called. So he decides, heck, we will do it too. So his runner did it and got called and his convo with the WH went like this:

"What did he do?"
"He pushed the runner into the EZ"
"Why did you call it?"
"It's assisting the runner coach"
"I know it's assisting the runner! But how come you freakin guys never call it when other teams do it!" (said half jokingly but not really)

Are those the officials at the train station or the ones with cancer?

The first two calls were right on.

I wouldn't have called the aiding the runner....... you aren't wrong for calling that, it's a "by the book call" ......but that wouldn't have been called in a college or pro game..... and that is a standard.

I'm not going to call a push from behind. I have called aiding the runner before when a team mate grabbed and pulled a runner into the endzone, but a push I'm going to let go.

Each level has it's own set of unique rules, for a reason. The same holds true for "standards".

It would be more accurate to say, especially in HS ball, each area has it's own standards. I know around my neck of the woods we do not want that flag for aiding the runner in the example given.

I didn't call it. It was like I couldn't believe it. I still wonder what was up on that play.

A snaps the ball and the left tackle pulls to the right. As he runs past the quaterback (who is dropping back....rather slowly) he pushes the quarterback in the back towards his own goal line.

As I keep playing it back in my mind, I'm guessing that he was helping his quarterback drop back a little quicker.

I kept watching for it to happen again, never did. Maybe he was pushing off so that he could get to his assignment faster. But I keep thinking this was another coach trying to gain an advantage........

Coach, to team: Our quarterback has one fine passing arm. The problem is....he is way too slow getting back to the pocket.......How can we, as a team, help him to get back to the pocket quicker.....

Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest.

Didn't get called, huh? [breaking out notebook, furtively taking notes, drawing diagram]

Seriously, though, the QB's getting in the way of pulling linemen is a considerable coaching concern. Usually, though, the fear is of their feet getting tangled, and pushing out of the way isn't going to help with that.

I agree. I'm not saying it was a bad call, but here in central Indiana, I don't know of any referee that would flag that as aiding the runner (and I'm a referee). My thoughts (and what I've seen) is that aiding the runner comes into play if an offensive player is holding up a ball carrier who would go to the ground without the help. Also, pulling a ball carrier will bring that flag. A push in the back of the ball carrier will not get called. Again, I'm not bashing the OP and his flag, just commenting on the standards in my neck of the woods.

I certainly don't feel like anyone is bashing my call. I asked for you guys' opinions. Its all good. I still feel like it was a pretty clear case of helping the runner. But I also understand that different folks look at things a little differently. And there are different philosophies all over the place on how to deal with things. Its all good, I love the discussions.

If you judged that he gained an advantage by it, then I think you've done good. Philosophy or not, it is a rule and if advantage is gained, it should be called. Just my opnion.

It all depends on the specific details of each play, but, when a bigger lineman or linbacker (maybe even more than one) stops a usually smaller running back, and another bigger offensive player tries to use that smaller player as a battering ram to force him through the defense, it can be problematic and dangerous for that smaller player.

Nobody ever bothers to wonder about how the battering ram felt, after using it to knock down some really hard doors.

I wouldn't have called aiding the runner in that clip but it was correct by the book. I am a U and I called this in a playoff game this week when a lineman turned around and pulled a runner into the endzone with both hands on the runners shoulder pads.

I have never called six guys on the line from the U spot. I've never even looked for it.