2 video clips. What do you think ...
 

A friend of mine asked me about these two plays, he said on both his guys got flagged for helmet to helmet contact. What do you guys see?

Copy and paste this whole link...and watch

http://38.119.57.149/video/151/10162009NEVADA UNION MINERSvVALLEY VIKINGS/angle2/DSV20091016 19.46.43.wmv

This one accured about the 37 yard line 12 or so seconds into the clip

http://38.119.57.149/video/151/10162009NEVADA UNION MINERSvVALLEY VIKINGS/angle1/DSV20091016 20.03.19.wmv

Make sure to copy from http all the way to wmv.

Play #1 - awful

Play #2 - looks as though he lead with his shoulder.

Neither is a foul. Pathetic.

Play 1 - could be a spear. I can't say for certain. Might look again later.

Play 2 - looks like he leads with the shoulder.

I'm kind of surprised...

From what I reading here (regarding play #2), most have no problem with a defender leaving his feet to launch himself at a defenseless opponent's head as long as his initial contact with the opponent's helmet is with the shoulder?


:mad:


I think it's both unnecessary and incites roughness. 9-4-3 (g)

I fixed your links so that they are clickable:

http://38.119.57.149/video/151/10162...2019.46.43.wmv

http://38.119.57.149/video/151/10162...2020.03.19.wmv

I don't see anything on the first.

On the second video, I see at least a running into the kicker. I don't think the video is conclusive on the legality of the block. It looks like a lead with the shoulder but that doesn't mean it is.

Tough camera angle on the first one. I didn't see an infraction. Looking at it from the other side it might have been, and that is where the U was who thru the flag.

2nd one is tough too. If the blocker launched himself at the defender's head I think that there could be a basis for unnecessary roughness. That's why we are on the field and I suspect have a better angle to judge these blocks. Jim

I don't really see the foul in play 2 (other than RTK).

Just to play devil's advocate here...should the R signaled for a TD on the play even though he was the one who threw the roughing the kicker foul?

Agree x2

We have been told to not signal if we personally have a flag (at any position).

Personally, I think you were told wrong.

You have been told wrong. The result of the play is TD until changed by any penalty enforcement. You should signal.

Nice that you guys think it is wrong. But since that is what I was told to do, that is what we do here.
There are quite a few things that different associations decide for various reason, and not all of them are the best solution. It is however the decision that has been made.

yup
 

Agree with everyone here. Both bad calls from what we can see on the video. If I were a coach I'd give out a helmet sticker to the guy on the first tackle for a fantastic form tackle.

I don't think you should be calling a helmet to helmet hit on a runner who has put his head down, unless it's intentional anyway.

I agree on the violation on the kicker. In my opinion, the block looks legal.

Good video picture, btw. I didn't detect a leading with the helmet in either. Just because the helmet gets there first doesn't mean its a foul.

Yes. In this example, its obviously coming back but in others it may not plus you want to be clear in what the result of the play was. Again, here, the guy goes into the end zone and no one is within 5 yards of him. If he's tackled, is it short? Is it a TD? Under NCAA rules, it may make a difference on penalty enforcement on a PF where someone scores, so I want to make sure everyone is aware of what happened.

Now, the R is not going to mirror the signal to the press box, but if he's the covering official, he'll give it.

One more comment on the second video. I noticed that the R is on the non-kicking foot side of the kicker. Shouldn't he be on the other side ?? This may have given a better angle of the contact on the kicker.

I can speak to his being on the side he is. In our group the R is always on the side of the LJ because we have the LJ release down field when the snap is secured and it is apparent that the ball will be kicked. We do not follow Fed Mechanics on a lot of things so I am not sure what the fed mechanics are for a punt.

Durham, thanks for the response. I just thought it looked odd, but I can see some logic for doing that. On our crew, we always have the back judge on the wide side of the field, and the linesperson opposite the back judge is the one who releases. I (as the referee) always am on the kicking leg side of the kicker. Being new to this forum, I am finding it fascinating that there are so many differences in how some things are done.

The protocol of signaling TD or any other mechanic is still in effect. While you know in your mind that the play will likely come back, it's still proper mechanics to signal.

As a BJ, I had a block in the back foul at the LOS Friday night on a 70 yard run. I knew it would come back, but had to race to get to the goal line. It was a torpedo flag toss about 15 yards forward to the penalty and then turn and run.

Impossible to tell on the first clip. The second clip looks like it would have been a great no-call.

Just a FYI
I was at our yearly clinic - this time the next level up from my local association (sort of like national instead of state level), and have been told to that I was misinformed (or the policy changed this year).
We will signal TD even though we threw the flag.