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john_faz Fri Oct 16, 2009 09:07am

Illegal Equipment?
 
Can players play without a shoe? I have seen players toss a shoe to the sideline and continue to play.

Is this a foul (the participation not the tossing)? If so, what would be the penalty?

Thanks.

John

ppaltice Fri Oct 16, 2009 09:15am

Shoes are mandatory equipment (1-5-1f). He would not be permitted to play without a shoe on at the snap. If he is participating, it is an USC foul on the HC (9-8-1h).

BktBallRef Fri Oct 16, 2009 09:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_faz (Post 631190)
I have seen players toss a shoe to the sideline and continue to play.

I must lead a sheltered existence. In over 20 years of doing this, I have never seen that.

bossman72 Fri Oct 16, 2009 09:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppaltice (Post 631193)
Shoes are mandatory equipment (1-5-1f). He would not be permitted to play without a shoe on at the snap. If he is participating, it is an USC foul on the HC (9-8-1h).

You can kill it before the snap and only hit them with 5 (similar to IS/IP), right?

mbyron Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72 (Post 631195)
You can kill it before the snap and only hit them with 5 (similar to IS/IP), right?

It's not IS because there was no sub. It's not IP because the ball was not snapped.

You should kill it for a brief "equipment repair" official's timeout. If the kid can't get his shoe on in 20 seconds, send him off and get a sub. Handle it the same as a helmet issue.

ump33 Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 631201)
It's not IS because there was no sub. It's not IP because the ball was not snapped.

You should kill it for a brief "equipment repair" official's timeout. If the kid can't get his shoe on in 20 seconds, send him off and get a sub. Handle it the same as a helmet issue.

The OP reads as if the player makes no attempt to put his shoe on, throws it to his side line and lines up for the next play. This is no different than not wearing a mouth piece and should be a foul prior to the snap.

3-6-2d ... Failure to properly wear legal or required player equipment when the ball is about to become live. Penalty: Delay of Game (S7-S21-S23)

Mike L Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:58am

If the shoe came off during live ball play, you got nothing. Just make sure it's back on before he participates again.
If the shoe came off during a dead ball, he better get his required equipment back on or off he goes. Depending on the timing of when you notice it gone, you could hit him for a delay penalty. If he does it again (and how stupid would he have to be to do that?), then I'd have a conversation with his coach about how it's about to be 15 yds if he doesn't take care of the problem.
I've never seen anyone, other than one of those crazy kickers, who attempts to play without shoes though.

whitehat Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:10am

A long time ago I saw a field goal kicker run onto the field barefooted to kick a FG. I was a fairly young official and thought nothing more of it than, "Wow, he must be cold" (it was like 5 degrees). An old experienced vet, told him he could not kick barefooted. Coach yelled "We been doing it all year!" Ref yells, back, "Your not doing it today!" So, they ran a shoe out in record time and he kicked a 35 yarder...
I do think there was a bit of reasonable delay in the RFP as I recall.

mbyron Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump33 (Post 631204)
The OP reads as if the player makes no attempt to put his shoe on, throws it to his side line and lines up for the next play. This is no different than not wearing a mouth piece and should be a foul prior to the snap.

3-6-2d ... Failure to properly wear legal or required player equipment when the ball is about to become live. Penalty: Delay of Game (S7-S21-S23)

I'm looking at a different rule, and following its instructions. You want preventive officiating here: if a kid throws his shoe off, I'm killing it and giving him a brief time out to fix it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2009 Rule Book
1-5: PLAYER EQUIPMENT
ART. 5 . . . When any required player equipment is missing or when illegal
equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation. An official’s
time-out shall be declared to permit prompt repair of equipment which becomes
illegal or defective through use
. (See 3-5-2b, 5b and 7f)



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