Enforcement Spot Questions

[kytank]

On an incomplete pass where is the enforcement spot for roughing the passer in high school?
How about on a completed pass?

also

Passer goes beyond the neutral zone and throws the ball. Is the enforcement spot from where the pass was thrown? Can you have a roughing call on an illegal forward pass?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kytank

On an incomplete pass where is the enforcement spot for roughing the passer in high school?
How about on a completed pass?

also

Passer goes beyond the neutral zone and throws the ball. Is the enforcement spot from where the pass was thrown? Can you have a roughing call on an illegal forward pass?

NFHS:

Roughing the passer on an incomplete pass is enforced 15 yards from the previous spot with an automatic first down.

If the pass is completed, it's 15 yards from the end of the last run provided there's no change in team possession and the last run is beyond the neutral zone (otherwise it reverts back to previous spot enforcement) -- and an automatic first down.

On the illegal forward pass, it's a 5 yard penalty from the spot of the pass (it's treated as a running play for enforcement and the spot of the illegal pass is the end of the related run). He is not a passer, by definition, so there cannot be roughing the passer. There can (of course) be a personal foul depending on the type and severity of contact, but the protection should be that which you'd give any other runner.

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: same. Illegal forward pass is also loss of down. I don't know if Rich just left that out for Fed. The only minor, technical issue is that an IFP in NCAA is a spot foul by rule. Its a running play foul, but since we don't get into basic spot enforcement, it doesn't matter.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

NCAA: same. Illegal forward pass is also loss of down. I don't know if Rich just left that out for Fed. The only minor, technical issue is that an IFP in NCAA is a spot foul by rule. Its a running play foul, but since we don't get into basic spot enforcement, it doesn't matter.

I missed the LOD. An IFP is also a LOD in NFHS rules.

[mbyron]

Note that even with a loss of down, an illegal forward pass can result in a first down due to the run preceding the foul.

For example: 3rd and 2 on A38. A1 drops back to pass and then runs up to the A46, where he throws a forward pass to A2.

This is an IFP thrown beyond the neutral zone. The 5 yard penalty is assessed from the end of the run, which will put the ball at the A41. Since that's beyond the line to gain, the loss of down is ignored, and it's 1/10 for A at the A41.

At first, this provision of the rule struck me as odd. Why should A benefit from an IFP? The answer is that they don't benefit from the IFP (which incurs a penalty), but the run is not taken away from them. A gets the benefit of the run up to the point of the foul. If that run, less the penalty, is still sufficient for a first down, then good for A.

Of course, one might ask why this isn't a loose ball play and thus enforced from the previous spot. The answer is: an illegal forward pass does not fall under the definition of a loose ball play.