The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Football (https://forum.officiating.com/football/)
-   -   Horse Collar - different twist. (https://forum.officiating.com/football/54629-horse-collar-different-twist.html)

GBFBUmp Mon Sep 14, 2009 08:59am
Horse Collar - different twist.
 
Due to a scheduling conflict, I was actually in the stands last Friday (first time in years). With new horse collar rule in NFHS, how does that relate to non-ball carrying players. Here's what I saw from the stands and now I am wondering how I would call this.

A1 fakes to A2. A2 pretends to carry ball left 2 yds behind LOS and A3 actually has ball running right to the outside. Interior Lineman B1 grabs A2 in classic HC form and brings A2 down to the ground backwards. No call was made, I think this is correct, but not sure if there is a foul there or not.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

mbyron Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:03am
The horse-collar tackle rule applies specifically to a "runner," who by definition has the ball.

Grabbing the collar of a non-runner sounds like a hold to me, although some leeway usually goes to tackling a fake runner. Officials' judgment.

InsideTheStripe Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:10am
I believe that by rule a foul occurred. Is it a safety related foul that should be called anywhere on the field? I tend to think so. I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of others as well.

9-4-3 [k]

Grab the inside back or side collar of the shoulder pads or jersey of the runner and subsequently pull the runner to the ground.

2-32-13

A runner is a player who is in possession of a live ball or is simulating possession of a live ball.

GBFBUmp Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 625145)
The horse-collar tackle rule applies specifically to a "runner," who by definition has the ball.

Grabbing the collar of a non-runner sounds like a hold to me, although some leeway usually goes to tackling a fake runner. Officials' judgment.

My thoughts too, as you said, leeway is given to tackling fake runners, so I was wondering if the reverse would be true as well, regarding the HC.

InsideTheStripe Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 625145)
The horse-collar tackle rule applies specifically to a "runner," who by definition has the ball.
You do not need to have the ball to be defined as a runner 2-32-13.

jaybird Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:16am
Quote:
.."runner," who by definition has the ball.
Not correct.

2-32-13
ART. 13 . . . A runner is a player who is in possession of a live ball or is
simulating possession of a live ball.

Rich Mon Sep 14, 2009 09:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFBUmp (Post 625143)
Due to a scheduling conflict, I was actually in the stands last Friday (first time in years). With new horse collar rule in NFHS, how does that relate to non-ball carrying players. Here's what I saw from the stands and now I am wondering how I would call this.

A1 fakes to A2. A2 pretends to carry ball left 2 yds behind LOS and A3 actually has ball running right to the outside. Interior Lineman B1 grabs A2 in classic HC form and brings A2 down to the ground backwards. No call was made, I think this is correct, but not sure if there is a foul there or not.

Anyone have thoughts on this?
It's a HCT. The runner is someone who has the ball or is simulating who has the ball as has already been mentioned.

I had one on a sack on Friday night. Of course, the sack left A 18 yards short of the line to gain, so we replayed 3rd down. I think the coach *still* thinks we screwed up.

movingthechains Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFBUmp (Post 625148)
My thoughts too, as you said, leeway is given to tackling fake runners, so I was wondering if the reverse would be true as well, regarding the HC.
Based on your description I think I would have had a HCT

Welpe Wed Sep 16, 2009 09:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 625151)
Of course, the sack left A 18 yards short of the line to gain, so we replayed 3rd down. I think the coach *still* thinks we screwed up.
Of course you did..."everyone" knows that in Federation rules all defensive PFs are automatic first downs and that fouls behind the LOS are enforced from the previous spot. :rolleyes:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1