Right Enforcement?

[kytank]

Need help to see if we made the right enforcement in our game. We had A1 sweeping around right end behind pulling guard and tackle. B1 comes up and throws a low block on the the guard and tackle in an attempt to wipe out their blocking for A1. We have a flag down here at B45 yd line for the low block. Somehow A1 finds an opening and scampers down the sideline to the 5 yd line where he taunts the B players and then crosses the goal line. We have a flag down at the 5 yd line for unsportsmanlike taunting foul. How should this situation be handled?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kytank

Need help to see if we made the right enforcement in our game. We had A1 sweeping around right end behind pulling guard and tackle. B1 comes up and throws a low block on the the guard and tackle in an attempt to wipe out their blocking for A1. We have a flag down here at B45 yd line for the low block. Somehow A1 finds an opening and scampers down the sideline to the 5 yd line where he taunts the B players and then crosses the goal line. We have a flag down at the 5 yd line for unsportsmanlike taunting foul. How should this situation be handled?

You have a live ball and dead ball (like) foul being enforced.

Enforce the live ball foul first and put the USC foul in your pocket.

You have a score and you enforce a BBW foul and put the ball on the 1 1/2 yard line from the 3 yard line (half the distance to the goal). Then you enforce the USC Foul 15 yards putting the ball on the 16 1/2 yard line where the try will take place.

You do not give the option to the defense because they are not the scoring team from what I understand.

Peace

[Bullycon]

The score counts. (Rule 10-5-3.)

A has the option of enforcing B's foul on the try (moving the ball to the 1 1/2 yard line) or on the kickoff (moving the kick to the 50 yard line). (Rule 8-2-2.) I'd imagine they'd take the foul on the kickoff.

B can only enforce the unsportsmanlike conduct foul on the try. (Rule 10-4-5a.) Penalize 15 yards from the succeeding spot, which is B's 3-yard-line for the try.

If the unsportsmanlike conduct occurs after the player crosses the goal and the ball is dead, B can choose to enforce the penalty on the kickoff. (Rule 8-2-4.)

[gtwbam]

Indeed the score does count.

And A does have the option of enforcing B's foul on the try or the kickoff.

However B's options for enforcement on the unsportsmanship conduct by A will apply to both the try and succeeding kickoff as well

The options given to B on the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty by A is not determined whether the player crossed the goal line, its determined by when it occurred, whether it was before or after the ready-for-play whistle for the try. In this case its before.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by gtwbam

The options given to B on the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty by A is not determined whether the player crossed the goal line, its determined by when it occurred, whether it was before or after the ready-for-play whistle for the try. In this case its before.

Rule 8-2-4: "If after a touchdown-scoring play and prior to the initial ready-for-play signal for the try, either team commits any foul for which the basic spot is the succeeding spot, the offended team may have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot or may choose to have the penalty enforced on the subsequent kickoff."

If the foul occurs before he crosses the goal line, then it is not after the play, it is during the play. Thus, B's only option is to enforce on the try.

[gtwbam]

Since all unsportmanlike penalties are treated as dead ball fouls, this would be the exception to the rule, and give B the option to have the penalty assessed either on the try or subsequent kickoff.

[Rich]

The NFHS "Bin Book" (High School Football Penalty Enforcements Made Easy) treats a live ball foul (treated as a dead ball) as a foul that can be applied on the kickoff, as well.

Redding says: "Penalties for nonplayer and unsportsmanlike fouls, by either team during a play that ends in a touchdown (8-2-4)" can be applied on the kickoff.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by gtwbam

However B's options for enforcement on the unsportsmanship conduct by A will apply to both the try and succeeding kickoff as well

The options given to B on the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty by A is not determined whether the player crossed the goal line, its determined by when it occurred, whether it was before or after the ready-for-play whistle for the try. In this case its before.

That's wrong. The USC before the score is the succeeding spot only. Bullycon has it right. A can bridge the BBW to the KO or have it on the try, B can only take A's USC on the try only.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kdf5

That's wrong. The USC before the score is the succeeding spot only. Bullycon has it right. A can bridge the BBW to the KO or have it on the try, B can only take A's USC on the try only.

Nobody disagrees about the penalty for BBW.

True, the USC by A happened during the down. But since it is treated as a dead-ball foul, 8-2-4 applies to it (Bullycon quoted the rule above). Thus, B has the option to enforce the penalty on the KO. Hence, the Reddings ruling also quoted.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kdf5

That's wrong. The USC before the score is the succeeding spot only. Bullycon has it right. A can bridge the BBW to the KO or have it on the try, B can only take A's USC on the try only.

Redding and the Bin Book (from Referee) agree that the USC can now be applied on the kickoff.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by kytank

Need help to see if we made the right enforcement in our game. We had A1 sweeping around right end behind pulling guard and tackle. B1 comes up and throws a low block on the the guard and tackle in an attempt to wipe out their blocking for A1. We have a flag down here at B45 yd line for the low block. Somehow A1 finds an opening and scampers down the sideline to the 5 yd line where he taunts the B players and then crosses the goal line. We have a flag down at the 5 yd line for unsportsmanlike taunting foul. How should this situation be handled?

CANADIAN RULING:

If the block below the waist is illegal, it is enforced from the PLS (10y, DR or 1D) if the ball is behind the LTG, and PBH (10y, 1D) is beyond the LTG.

After that, go back 10y with the same down.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

CANADIAN RULING:

If the block below the waist is illegal, it is enforced from the PLS (10y, DR or 1D) if the ball is behind the LTG, and PBH (10y, 1D) is beyond the LTG.

After that, go back 10y with the same down.

Right.... B threw the (possibly) illegal low block. Count the TD and go back 10 on the convert or KO.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Right.... B threw the (possibly) illegal low block. Count the TD and go back 10 on the convert or KO.

Do you think that your earlier post gains credibility by your now agreeing with it?

[ump33]

In the following Case Book Play a coach of the scoring team is on the field during the touchdown run and Ruling (b) states that enforcement will be from the try.

10.5.3 SITUATION B: Third down and 12 on A’s 40-yard line. A1 drops back to throw a pass. The pass is completed to A2 who scores on the run following the reception. During the down, (a) A3 holds B1 on A’s 37-yard line or (b) A’s coach is observed standing inbounds on B’s 20-yard line. RULING: (a) If B accepts the penalty for holding by A3, the score is nullified and following enforcement it will be A’s ball, third down and 25 to go on A’s 27. In (b), the score stands. Following enforcement the try will be from A’s 18-yard line. (9-2-1c, 9-8-1k, 10-5-3)

This is a "live ball foul" by the scoring team enforced from the Succeeding Spot which is the Try