Ending the Half

[Simbio]

I don't know if its the offseason rust or what, but I thought I would post this on here to see what kind of response I'd get. This will be based on high school rules:

With :10 seconds left in the half, B committs a live ball foul. At the end of the down, the clock is stopped with :06 seconds left to administer the penalty. The play had ended inbounds. Following the penalty administration, the R winds the clock, the remaining :06 seconds run off before A attempts to snap the ball, and time runs out for the half.

Is the half over, or do we have to run one untimed down? I know how the rule is worded, Rule 3.3.3.A. However, I think that would only apply if during the down where the foul occurred that the time ran out during that down.

Is this correct?

[jaybird]

There will be one untimed down.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by jaybird

There will be one untimed down.

Yes. I've always found it helpful, when explaining the penalty options to the offended Captain, to include explaining the timing elements, that the clock will start on the Ready for Play, but if time expires before he can get the play off, he'll be entitled to an untimed down.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by jaybird

There will be one untimed down.

Agreed. Time does not have to expire during the down. Time can subsequently expire and you will still have an untimed down.

[Robert Goodman]

I hope the mechanics are common sensical: that you simply let team A play thru, regardless of the expiration of time. (Like the ordinary termination of a period in Canadian football.)

Mechanics that would be stupid-sensical would involve whistling at 0:00, shooting a gun off, sounding a siren, beating a gong, and then telling A's captain, "Oh, by the way, you get an untimed down now."

Robert in the Bronx

[Ed Hickland]

The best way I think to handle this situtation is to tell both coaches a play will be run regardless of the clock; otherwise, you have the teams come to the line, the clock runs out, you have to explain there will be a play. Of course, the boo-birds will be yelling, "the clock expired ref."

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I hope the mechanics are common sensical:

Hey, we'll have none of that. So, what's the signal for a half-timed/half-untimed down?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Mechanics that would be stupid-sensical would involve whistling at 0:00, shooting a gun off, sounding a siren, beating a gong, and then telling A's captain, "Oh, by the way, you get an untimed down now."

Robert in the Bronx

Sorry Robert, but that's a lousy idea. Allowing the game to simply continue, without the ball being snapped, after the clock has expired is a sure way to crerate a cluster f**k. You can be guaranteed that either someone on the offense will question what's going on and more inappropriately, of the defense will think the game (period) is over and let up, or both.

You simply whistle everytning stopped at 0:00, announce to both teams that there will be an untimed down, (even if you've already explained that to both captains during the explanation of the penalty options) declare the ball RFP, and play on.

[Reffing Rev.]

A foul during the last timed down...a down is the action which begins with a legal snap and ends when the ball becomes dead by rule...

2 plays for you to consider

Play 1: Team A is downed in bounds with a first down and 6 seconds left. B99 piles on and gets a flag. Clock starts on the ready and expires before the ball is snapped. Is there an untimed down?

Play 2: During a run by A1 B99 tackles A1 by the face mask. After penalty enforcement the clock is started on the ready for play with 30 seconds left. As A sets in their formation A77 false starts with 10 seconds left on the game clock. After penalty enforcement the clock starts again on the ready, and time expires before the ball is snapped. Is there an untimed down?

My answers : Play 1 = no, Play2 = yes (But I will crucify the coach who uses that to his advantage)

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Hey, we'll have none of that. So, what's the signal for a half-timed/half-untimed down?

Look at Signal 1. Basically point straight up and circle your finger.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry Robert, but that's a lousy idea. Allowing the game to simply continue, without the ball being snapped, after the clock has expired is a sure way to crerate a cluster f**k. You can be guaranteed that either someone on the offense will question what's going on and more inappropriately, of the defense will think the game (period) is over and let up, or both.

You simply whistle everytning stopped at 0:00, announce to both teams that there will be an untimed down, (even if you've already explained that to both captains during the explanation of the penalty options) declare the ball RFP, and play on.

Why couldn't that have been explained to the captains along with the penalty enforcement? Are you saying the above mechanic is better even if the teams have come to the line, and for all you know the ball could be snapped 1 sec. after 0:00, and then you actually whistle and make the ball unready for play just to tell them it's an untimed down and ready for play??! How about letting team B bring on subs during that interval while you're at it, now that they've seen A's formation?

Of course that makes a new 25 sec. clock in Fed, so if team A was still huddling instead of the scenario above you're giving them extra time to get ready.

Would you change your mechanic if there was no official period time visible? Or would you actually say, "I must prevent your play to inform you that my watch says no time left for the period, which is inconsequential because this play is untimed. Play on."?

Robert in the Bronx

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why couldn't that have been explained to the captains along with the penalty enforcement?

When was the last time you had captains actually listen during the penalty enforcement discussions?

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

Look at Signal 1. Basically point straight up and circle your finger.

But that's for an untimed down. If it's half-timed and half-untimed should I just use a different finger.

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

But that's for an untimed down. If it's half-timed and half-untimed should I just use a different finger.

Missed the tongue-in-cheek question. I guess if you are going to ad lib the rules, you can create your on signal. So I think the signal is left to the referee's discretion.

[michrefdh]

Originally Posted by Simbio

I don't know if its the offseason rust or what, but I thought I would post this on here to see what kind of response I'd get. This will be based on high school rules:

With :10 seconds left in the half, B committs a live ball foul. At the end of the down, the clock is stopped with :06 seconds left to administer the penalty. The play had ended inbounds. Following the penalty administration, the R winds the clock, the remaining :06 seconds run off before A attempts to snap the ball, and time runs out for the half.

Is the half over, or do we have to run one untimed down? I know how the rule is worded, Rule 3.3.3.A. However, I think that would only apply if during the down where the foul occurred that the time ran out during that down.

Is this correct?

The common sense officiating thing would be to not start the clock until the snap in that situation.

I'm a big fan of common sense applications of rules, sometimes getting too technical gets in the way of being fair and officiating by the spirit of the rules. If you wind the clock and then have to have an untimed down after the clock reads 0:00, you are just asking for confusion and problems.