7 players on the LOS

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by ChickenOfNC

...two players on the LOS on my side of the center I will flash "2" above my head to the opposite wing. He should flash "4" ...

[smart alec comment alert]

But if there are seven on the line, won't there always be three on either side of the center? I mean... if there are two on your side of the snapper and four on the other side of the snapper, then the snapper is not the center?

[jaybird]

then the snapper is not the center?

That's why he is the snapper and should be referred to as such. A center is a tall basketball player.

Originally Posted by jaybird

That's why he is the snapper and should be referred to as such. A center is a tall basketball player.

Not always...I had a "center" that was shorter than my power forward when I coached HS ball about 15 long years ago. He was a better jumper than the power forward, even if he was about 6 inches shorter!

[KWH]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The mechanic of having the LJ fully count ANY players -- offense or defense -- is screwed up because of his inability to often see players who are covered up.

What we do on my crew is that I (R) and the U have basically 2 signals with an outstretched hand that my wings know to look for. Closed fist = 11 players. Wings just verify no more than 4 in the backfield, which should be easy enough. Open fist = 10 or fewer players (and we leave this signal open until the snap), so no more than 3 in the backfield, and we are good. 4 = both wings flag. If there are more than 11, we have a foul. I tell my BJ to be responsible for the defense.

If the wings look at me or the umpire and don't see a signal, unless its real early in huddle/play, we have 11. I'll hold the 10 or fewer signal until the snap. I think after you've worked a while, its pretty easy to tell whether there are more than 11 on a glance, and you just verify it. Incidentally, when I count, its "4-4-3" or sometimes the formation will dictate that I count "3-3-3-2." Its important that everyone learn to count in multiples, as counting from 1 to 11 is very time consuming, even for the fastest guy. Group counting takes literally 2 seconds.

What is an "Open Fist"? Open Hand maybe?
Isn't an "open fist" easily confused with "Military Intelligence?"

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by KWH

What is an "Open Fist"? Open Hand maybe?
Isn't an "open fist" easily confused with "Military Intelligence?"

He is an Aggie, so give him a little leeway.

When I am refereeing, I also give an open hand for 10 man and a fist for 11. I maintain this signal while my U just holds up until we acknowledge each other.

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

[smart alec comment alert]

But if there are seven on the line, won't there always be three on either side of the center? I mean... if there are two on your side of the snapper and four on the other side of the snapper, then the snapper is not the center?

If you'll go back and look at my whole post, I referred to the "center" early in the post, and the "snapper" at the end. Sometimes an old bit player/fan jargon creeps back into the vocab.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

He is an Aggie, so give him a little leeway.

When I am refereeing, I also give an open hand for 10 man and a fist for 11. I maintain this signal while my U just holds up until we acknowledge each other.

We thumb down 10 or fewer. 12 gets a recount and a flag.

[Big2Cat]

"The referee is telling you there are 11 players. Therefore, ther wing are merely dtermining if there are less than 6 on the line. As for the player in "no-mans land," Yes, the wings will determine if the formation is legal. So, I think perhaps you may have answered your own question? "



This doesn't matter much anymore in college since the rule was re-written that there be no more than 4 in the back field. So, 6 on the line is no longer a foul if a team only has 10 players. With that being the case, I can't even see a reason for the Umpire to keep his signal up for the wings. Confirm 11 (or less) with the R and you are good to go.

[a4caster]

Just another thought...if you use the "counting your side" technique, if you have your standard three on the line, take a QUICK look into the backfield and make sure there are four players. Just a double check for 11 O players. I can get through my pre-snap procedure so quickly I am looking for something else to do. Multitasking, per se. But one additional point: if you are unbalanced and have quads on one side, once again, you can do a double check for 11. Just helping out those in the middle a little bit.