Touchdown Signals

[Admiral]

In goal to go situations, what positions are permitted to signal a touchdown?

[Jim D.]

I don't like the work "permitted". Any official is permitted to signal. However, on our crew if the ball is snapped from the 10 yard line in, the wings will have the primary responsibility for the goal line and the back judge will have the end line. Any farther out and the BJ has the goal line (Some crews us the 15 as a cut off). Any of those 3 officials will signal touchdown. The U & R don't rule on the TD.

It's better if only the closest covering official signals. Don't mirror the other persons call. There is no need for three guys to throw up their hands.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Jim D.

.

It's better if only the closest covering official signals. Don't mirror the other persons call. There is no need for three guys to throw up their hands.

Certainly any official who sees a touchdown scored should signal, and there is nothing wrong with mirroring a TD signal by an off official unless that other official believes a TD was NOT scored.

[Mike L]

Perhaps it's different in other areas (where everyone apparently could be standing there with their arms in the air) but around here it depends on the action involved.
If the BJ is on the goal line, he and the wing who boxes the run in will signal. If the BJ is on the end line, the wings signal a run in. Usually both wings but if the run is near the sideline/pylon, just that side wing will signal.
On a pass into the endzone near the endline, the BJ and the wing that is boxing in the catch will signal.
The U never signals and on a pile-up in the middle is expected to communicate to the incoming wing if he has it in. It's then up to the wing to decide if he had the runner down first or to signal in.
The R will only confirm the signal to the press box or on those hated situations where a turnover goes all the way (it's happened more than I like to remember), I've got the goal line all the way.

[Jim D.]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Certainly any official who sees a touchdown scored should signal, and there is nothing wrong with mirroring a TD signal by an off official unless that other official believes a TD was NOT scored.

I'd be a bit more selective. For example, if the runner sweeps right and crosses the goal line near the sideline in front of the HL, there really isn't any need for the LJ or even the BJ to signal TD. It's the HL's call so leave it at that. If a pass if complete in the end zone on that side, the BJ and the HL would probably both signal, but again there would be no need for the LJ to mirror the signal from the other side of the field. If it's up the gut either the HL or LJ or both would signal, but we don't need one from the BJ.

[ajmc]

[QUOTE=Jim D.;606268]I'd be a bit more selective. /QUOTE]

From the 2008/2009 NFHS Football Officials Manual, "Four Officials -Goal Line Play"

IV. All Officials
A. Only official(s) who actually see TD should give TD
signal.
B. Officials not observing TD do not mirror signal.
C. Count your respective team.

I'll stand corrected on the mirroring, (For an official who has not seen the score) but I can't see any harm, unless it's an official who is going to dispute the TD call, in which case he would not mirror the call.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I can't see any harm, unless it's an official who is going to dispute the TD call, in which case he would not mirror the call.

Covering official signals TD.

You mirror his signal.

Covering official is wrong.

What's that make you?

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Covering official signals TD.

You mirror his signal.

Covering official is wrong.

What's that make you?

A Dumbo.

[Forksref]

Walt has it nailed. NO mirroring of TD signals.

Also, we do not "mirror" beanbags. ONLY the official who has seen the fumble drops the bag, for the same reason. What IF it was an incomplete pass? Is Mr. Hochuli in the room?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by jaybird

A Dumbo.

Perhaps the term "mirroring" is the problem, or at least how and when it might be used.

Is it mirroring when a LJ, on one end of the goal line sees a player, in possession of the ball, clearly cross over the goal line, on the other sideline, and sees the HL, in position to rule on whether he crossed the goal line inside the sideline signal TD, to signal TD, so all the players on his side of the field know the play has ended?

Does a BJ, at the center of the endline, who observes a player complete a catch inside the endline near a sideline, after checking with the HL who's ruling on the sideline aspects of the catch, repeat the HL's TD signal?

Is signalling something you have personally seen, although it may be instantly following another official's signal, mirroring?

The NFHS Officials manual cautions;
"A. Only official(s) who actually see Touchdown should give TD signal.
B. Officials not observing TD do not mirror signal.

Maybe dumb is assuming that "one size fits all" about anything related to football.

[SNG10]

How does everyone treat the old "pileup" when looking for the score? If you don't see it, just wait until the pile is cleaned up ?

[Jim D.]

Originally Posted by SNG10

How does everyone treat the old "pileup" when looking for the score? If you don't see it, just wait until the pile is cleaned up ?

Pretty much. You have to find the ball before you can signal. Coaches, players and spectators will understand the delay. Sometimes the umpire can tell you that A had possession of the ball in the endzone before the pile up so you can call a TD based on that. Otherwise, keep digging until the ball is located and see what that gives you.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The NFHS Officials manual cautions;
"A. Only official(s) who actually see Touchdown should give TD signal.
B. Officials not observing TD do not mirror signal.

Well, Al, I think you have your answer right there in front of you. Seems you're the one who is once again mistaken and is now in full backpedal mode.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by SNG10

How does everyone treat the old "pileup" when looking for the score? If you don't see it, just wait until the pile is cleaned up ?

Someone has to be digging. When the ball is found, it's location will determine if it is a score or not. We can't rule on how it got there. Also, we are going away from "secret" signals by the umpire. In reality, they are not so secret. We will be going to a verbal signal from the umpire. Remember that the signal from the umpire only means he has the ball over the line. The knee of the runner could have touched down before the line.

[SNG10]

So, if the knee was down, but no one(on the crew) had the ball at the time, and the U has it in, we'll have to go with the td, correct ?