Mechanics on forward pass.

[Mike Simonds]

Here is a situation that came up yesterday during a high school all-star game:

In our association we use 6 man mechanics for varsity football, 5 for JV, and 4 for youth league. When we read pass at the snap, the head linesman holds his position on the line of scrimmage, the line judge will go down field 5 yards, the umpire will get up to the line of scrimmage. I believe 5 man mechanics are similar.

In this game the quarterback rolled out to his left (towards the HL's side) and threw a forward pass. He said the QB was very close to the line and his throwing arm may have been across the line when he released the ball. HL ruled that it was a legal pass. During our post game discussion the box man said that the quaterback was 1 1/2 yards beyond the line and the linesman admitted that it was very close.

My question is this; as the umpire in the game I try to get to the line when I read pass and continue to watch blocking and line play as the flow of the play moves to the where the pass was thrown. Do I have secondary responsibility to judge whether the QB was beyond the line? I was told that I am only responsible for watching if there are any ineligibles down field.

I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's advice on mechanics in this situation. Can we also start mechanic's topics by position and play situation? I think it would be useful to start polishing our mental checklists as the season approaches.

[mikesears]

I think the Umpire should be able to give some assistance on this type of play (especially with four or five man mechanics). My reason: the U is already at the line of scrimmage and it is just a matter or looking to see if the QB is beyond you or not. The R is in a terrible spot to try to make that call because hs is trailing the play. In a five man crew, oftentimes, the HL will be caught downfield and can't get back to check on where the QB was when the pass was thrown and also officiate action downfield.

I am not familiar with six-man mechanics so I don't know who is supposed to have responsibility for this.

[James Neil]

Mike ,
here's what I was told to do on pass plays when working Ump in 4-man . When I read a pass , I move quickly towards the line of scrimmage (But not so quick I get run over on a draw play)all the while watching for illegal use of the hands, holding and other fouls by players in my area. . If possable , I try to be on the line of scrimmage before the pass is thrown. This puts me in good position to observe ineligibles downfield.
If a short pass goes over the interior line, I'll pivot and watch the end of the pass. Sometimes the Wingman's view will be blocked and he'll need help to be able to rule whether the pass was caught or incomplete, especially if the receiver is facing me. If I see any tipping of the pass I'll give the signal . I have secondary responsibility for ruling on passes from beyond the neutral zone. And most important , I don't call pass interference unless I want to ride home alone .... ;^)

BTW , I like your idea on talking mechanics . How about some feedback on pre-snap duties for Ump .

[nvfoa15]

Mike,

In both of the officials associations that I have worked with the umpire would drop a bean bag at the point of release of the pass (if close to LOS) and the referee would parallel the spot and check with the box and flag accordingly.

Since the NF changed the rule to be the position of the foot and not arm, I, as referee, trail the QB and eyeball the spot of the pass, get to the spot, check the box and flag accordingly.

[jfurdell]

Illegal forward pass can be a tough call, and you hate to step on the feet of other crew members.

The only time I've flagged IFP so far was as a line judge (4-man) in one of my first games. I had started to drop back to cover the pass, but the QB scrambled out of the pocket almost immediately and headed upfield on my side. When he got close to the line of scrimmage, I assumed this was becoming a running play and headed back towards the QB to cover it. Thus, I had a great view of the QB throwing a forward pass two yards past the LOS, and threw the flag. The bad news was I was way out of position for covering the receivers, 40 yards downfield from me on my sideline.

Luckily for me, the pass was incomplete. The referee thanked me for the flag, since he had trouble seeing where the QB passed from; he's just not positioned in the best vantage point to rule on that. But he also told me I should have been in position to cover the receivers downfield. That's why it's so tough to call; nobody's in a great position to see it if they're where they're supposed to be.

Is it normally the U's responsibility to help out in this situation?

[Theisey]

Mike, I normally do not answer mechanics questions because I've learned over the years that you'll get at least four different responses for even the most trival play. I follow NFHS guidelines for NFHS 4 or 5 man games and CCA mechanics for 5 or 6 man for NCAA man games.

One thing, you mentioned that the passers arm may have been beyond the NZ when he released the ball. That's not a what one should be looking at, it takes the passers feet to be beyond to be an illegal forward pass under NFHS rules. I assume you are using NFHS rules as under NCAA rules, no part of the passers body can be beyond the NZ.

The "U" can assist the "R" in determining this, but it is most certainly not your primary job. You got your hands full as it is.

The LJ may or not be able to help as he has been slowly moving off the line. The HL (using CCA 6-man) is one step into B's side of the NZ and has a chance to see this. That being said, guess who really has the primary job.. Yep, it's good old Mr R. The wings have little chance in helping in 5-man games has we have moved downfield with receivers.

He can drop a bag or a flag and continue to officiate. A late flag is not a bad thing in this case. One thing, on a roll out where the QB is running towards the box. I'll retreat to A's side of the NZ and let the play go bye. That QB may be driving right at the forward stake and the HL is in harms way. Like I said, the HL now has a chance to see whether a pass if thrown is illegal.

[Sleeper]

Instead of throwing a bean bag, could he throw the flag as a marker, and then waive it off if the QB was not past the line of scrimmage? If it is close, couldn't this work?

[BktBallRef]

Better to throw a bean bag and allow the R to make the determination. Start throwing flags without knowing for sure a foul has been committed and you're going to sacrifice your credibility and the crews. While wave offs are possible, we shouldn't try to incorporate them into our game.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Theisey
Mike, I normally do not answer mechanics questions because I've learned over the years that you'll get at least four different responses for even the most trival play. I follow NFHS guidelines for NFHS 4 or 5 man games and CCA mechanics for 5 or 6 man for NCAA man games.

One thing, you mentioned that the passers arm may have been beyond the NZ when he released the ball. That's not a what one should be looking at, it takes the passers feet to be beyond to be an illegal forward pass under NFHS rules. I assume you are using NFHS rules as under NCAA rules, no part of the passers body can be beyond the NZ.

The "U" can assist the "R" in determining this, but it is most certainly not your primary job. You got your hands full as it is.

The LJ may or not be able to help as he has been slowly moving off the line. The HL (using CCA 6-man) is one step into B's side of the NZ and has a chance to see this. That being said, guess who really has the primary job.. Yep, it's good old Mr R. The wings have little chance in helping in 5-man games has we have moved downfield with receivers.

He can drop a bag or a flag and continue to officiate. A late flag is not a bad thing in this case. One thing, on a roll out where the QB is running towards the box. I'll retreat to A's side of the NZ and let the play go bye. That QB may be driving right at the forward stake and the HL is in harms way. Like I said, the HL now has a chance to see whether a pass if thrown is illegal.

[hr]

I agree with you.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that the R can sometimes have difficulty in ruling on this kind of play because he is trailing the action. My own philsophy is that if you have questions about the legality of the pass you can look to the U to see if you can get some help. If you still have questions, it was NOT a foul. Thoughts?

[Mike Simonds]

Thanks guys!

I'm going to work on my mental checklist as follows: Before the snap I'm going to note down and distance. When I take my position I'm going to note where the line of scrimmage is. At the snap I'm going to read the initial blocks and if I read pass I'm going to get to the line of scrimmage quickly but under control while observing line play. If the quarterback rolls out towards the line I'll shift my attention to action in that area. When the pass is released I'll drop my bean bag if the QB is near the line and then continue to officiate and watch for tipped passes, ineligibles down field, and assist the other officials on pass coverage.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by mikesears

[hr]

I agree with you.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that the R can sometimes have difficulty in ruling on this kind of play because he is trailing the action. My own philsophy is that if you have questions about the legality of the pass you can look to the U to see if you can get some help. If you still have questions, it was NOT a foul. Thoughts?

I prefer a late flag on this call unless the passer is so far over the line until it is obvious.

Anything close to the LOS requires the referee look to the box to determine if it is illegal. Drop the bean bag and continue to officiate. At the end of the play spot the box and the bag and throw the flag, if illegal.