Illegal Snap, Motion?
 

A friend who coaches little league asked me this scenario. I wasn't positive, so I thought I would post it here:

Team A has 7 men on the line of scrimmage. Team A is in a "swinging gate" formation (all offensive players are lined up far out to the side) with no one standing over the ball. Receiver A80 motions towards the ball, and hikes it sideways in one conitinuous motion. Legal? Or does he have to set for one full second before hiking the ball?

7-1-3...ART. 3 . . . Following the ready-for-play and after touching the ball, the snapper shall not:

a. Remove both hands from the ball.
b. Make any movement that simulates a snap.
c. Fail to clearly pause before the snap.
d. Following adjustment, lift or move the ball other than in a legal snap.

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3); false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

a-d would cause the ball to remain dead. If he was moving forward and picked up the ball and snapped it then technically you would have illegal motion but I would blow it dead and not let the play start and forget the IM. Nothing good would come of letting the play go.

But it's not only the failure to clearly pause. To be touching the ball, the player would have to be on the line of scrimmage, and hence could not be in motion.

Snapper's shoulders must be parallel the to link of scrimmage.

And in addition to some requirements already stated here, in Canada, a snap MUST travel in between the centre's legs to be legal.

Not a requirement in NFHS football.

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

Illegal. The snapped ball must travel between the snapper's legs. IWO, side snaps are not permitted. Foul: Illegal Procedure. Penalty: 5 yards from PLS, DR.

Got to love little league "coaches."

Of course this is not legal. First of all for an end to go in motion he must be five yards in the backfield at the snap which precludes him snapping the ball unless he has his own superhero show.

Second, the end going in motion would leave only six men on the line, therefore, illegal formation.

Third, the snapper must face the line of scrimmage (the ball can be snapped in one continous motion sideways).

Fourth, the snapper must be in a set position to snap the ball.

This "coach" needs a copy of Football Coaching for Dummies.

This "coach" needs a copy of Football Coaching for Dummies.

He needs to focus on teaching blocking and tackling and forget about the tom-foolery.

How this learning/teaching thing seems to works best is when someone realizes they don't know enough about something, the smart ones seek advice from someone they believe is smarter. That person can then share their knowledge, if they're sure what they know is correct.

If they're not sure, they can either fake an answer, or seek advise from someone they think may have more knowledge and then share what they learn with the original questioner. This way at least two people have increased their knowledge, and everybody is better off.

People who are ignorant, simply don't know something, and there are things everyone is ignorant about. When someone asks you for information, they're acknowledging they think you are smarter than them about the subject. If you know the answer you can demonstrate how smart you are, and if you aren't sure you can demonstrate your wisdom in choosing to find out before you provide an answer. Either way you look good and raise the general knowledge level.

Stupid people, on the other hand, discount their ignorance and blast ahead without seeking advice. The choice we have is often between helping someone become more knowledgable, or ignoring them and watching them stay stupid, understanding you may have to deal with their stupidity again.

Huh!

I'll type slower Ed. When someone asks a question, because they think you may be more knowledgable about a subject than they may be, it seems like Simbio took the right approach.

Rather than belittle and mock the intelligence of the questioner, he saw an opportunity to help someone learn and understand some of the finer points of the game and he chose to ask for advice from others he thought might be more knowledgable, to beable to provide the best answer. Several people were quick to respond and provide additional detail that I'm sure he'll share with the coach and both he and the coach will understand one more thing a little better. I guess he could have pointed out how ignorant the coach was to ask such a question, but neither he nor the coach would have gained anything by that approach.

Perhaps if you took a little time to help "little league coaches" to understand more, they'd show you a little "love" in return and wouldn't need to seek assistance from a copy of Football Coaching for Dummies.

Ed,
Let me interpret. Al didn't have any answers or suggestions to the original post so he used a whole bunch of words to be sarcastic and to say nothing relevant.

Thanks Jaybird,

Now I understand, it's the usual saracastic diatribe with a plethora of words and phrases devoid of any true meaning.

I think Al is saying that he is happy the guy asked. Ignorant people are teachable. Stupid people aren't.

I want to be sure I didn't mislead you, Jaybird, it's entirely possible to be both ignorant and stupid at the same time. The fact that you can't find relevance in civility doesn't mean it's not there.

Al, you never have anything good to say about anything. If someone said at noon the sun was shining you would disagree and saracastically use words to make them feel less than. It must be your sick way for getting attention.

I am no longer going to participate in any thread where you participate and I would highly suggest anyone else on this forum adopt the same.

Have a good life.

I wholeheartedly agree with Ed!

Out of curiosity is it possible to disable this clowns posts so I don't ever have to view them again?

AJMC = Another Jackass Making Comments :eek:

In Idaho they prefer a wide stance.

He wasn't belittling the questioner. The questioner and the coach are not the same person. It's the coach who devised this stupid play.

Verrrry slowly read the original post.

Thank's for your advise, I did as you suggested and Verrrry slowly read the original post, especially the part that says, "A friend who coaches little league asked me this scenario".

I understand that often little league coaches can be an enormous PIA (pain in the ...) but in reality many of them are learning too and we have an opportunity to steer them in the right direction with the answers we give to sincere and serious questions.

If you think the question is neither sincere or serious, you can always deal with that differently. We are all borne with the inherent talent to be a smart a.., the skill some learn better than others, is how and when to apply that talent to be effective.

Not only that, but with fewer institutional constraints and large numbers, they can explore facets of the game that challenge its administration in ways that coaches at higher levels rarely do.

Robert in the Bronx

Back to the Subject at Hand...
 

First, thank you to all who replied to my original question. I thought the snapper had to be set prior to snapping as well, I just wanted to be sure.

Second, my mind must really be rusty on the rules. Isn't the restriction on the motion man only requires him to be 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage at the snap if he is to receive a handoff? Isn't he allowed to go in motion on the line of scrimmage or does he clearly have to position himself as a back prior to going in motion?

I know this is something I should know but for whatever reason it escapes me at the moment.

NF: 7.3.6 & 7 covers this. "Only one player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not towards the opponent's goal line. Except for the player"under the snapper",....the player in motion shall be at least 5 yards behind the LOS at the snap if he started from any position not clearly behind the line and did not establish himself as a back by stopping for at least one full second....."

So, if a player on the line simply takes a step backwards, so he's clearly off the line, pauses at that position for a full second, (a separate shift by which he establishes himself as a back) he can then go in motion without being restricted to the 5 yards behind the LOS requirement.

If an end goes in motion by rule he must be five yards behind the line of scrimmage irrepsective of whether he will receive a handoff. Unlike the NFL an end cannot go in motion on the line.

The current rule allows blocks below the waist and clips on the initial charge by offensive players stationary on the line of scrimmage and stationary at the snap and defensive players. At one point players who were in the 6 x 8 zone were allowed to BIBs and clips.

The restriction on the end was to make sure if the end went in motion he would be outside the free blocking zone at the snap.