American Flag on Your Uniform....
 

Either you're for or against it, and after mulling it over for the last 5 years our crew has all come to the conclusion that we'd like to have the flag on our SS and LS tops.

Without spending all night looking for my books and online, can anyone tell me the official NFHS guideline on that. Anyone in WI that does it would be better...not sure if WIAA governs that or NFHS.

Thanks in advance.

In NY we're instructed to wear a flag in the upper center of our back, I believe it's 2" below the collar. I thought that was an NFHS requirement. Why would anyone be "against" wearing one?

Because "American Flag Etiquette" from the USA Flag site says

"The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations."

That said, we wear ours centered about 1/2 inch above the pocket.

FYI: Pennsylvania - PIAA - quote from web site

"PIAA sports' officials may display an American flag
(maximum size 2 by 3 inches) on the right sleeve of
their uniform shirt approximately three inches down
from the shoulder seam. This will be the same position
the PIAA official patch is displayed on the left
sleeve."

I thought it was 1 1/2".

I never understood why we did that.

Let me rephrase that...

No one is against it, but my crew also works other games with a few other crews during their JV/FR assignments and not all of those crews have the flag on their unies. I can understand their point....looking/dressing alike is paramount and I'm getting my crew to have dedicated "flag" stripes when we all work together as a crew.

I have seen both the pocket and the upper back. I'm pretty sure the pocket is the spot for WIAA here in WI for most of the guys I see. Guess I'll be looking into it because it'll drive me nuts now until I'm forced to look.

Thanks guys.

Crew option here. Our varsity crew wears shirts with the flag sewn onto the pocket.

In Louisiana we wear them on the right sleeve.

In Baton Rouge, since it is on the right sleeve we wear reverse field flags. We are the only one of the nine La. associations to do so.

We have several ex-military guys who got LHSAA to give us dispensation to do so.

More than once an idiot fan has commented to one of our officials that they are so dumb they even have a backwards flag on their uniform, that sort of thing.

I would prefer that we didn't wear them, for the reason stated above (prohibited by the Flag Code) but we are told to instructed to wear them so we do.

The WIAA site has a document called "Guide for Sports Officials." In it you'll find the following:

"If you choose to place the flag on your officiating
uniform, it is required the flag be sewn on the left sleeve (3 to 4 inches above the elbow). The size of the flag is not to exceed 2x3 inches."

Our crew wears the reverse flag on our right sleeve as well. I live right by the national American Legion apparel HQ so I volunteered to pick up the flags for our crew a couple years ago. They knew why I was getting them and didn't say that was an inappropriate use of wearing the flag. They did tell me though about the right sleeve/reverse flag requirement though. The idea is to wear the stars closest to your heart or something like that. We get the "stupid" comments occasionally as well.

Good on you all for doing it right. It's a shame the rest of the associations in LA don't.

Another poster gave you a good answer to give those idiot fans. Stars closest to the heart! If the idiot fan doesn't get it, tell him/her to look closely at the next flag-draped casket and you'll notice that the stars are always above the person's heart (left side).

REPLY: Here in our NJ chapter, we are required to wear ours on our back as ajmc described above.

WE do, Bob. But that's not true for the entire state.

MHSAA specifies the left sleeve 2" down shoulder with the max size of 2" X 3 "

Don't worry, the flag isn't copyrighted.

Got my answer today from the WIAA here in Wisconsin:

"If you choose to place the flag on your officiating uniform, it is required
the flag be sewn on the left sleeve (3 to 4 inches above the elbow). The size of the flag is not to exceed 2" x 3". Placing the flag on other
locations other than the sleeve will be allowed for fall regular season play
only. If you will be doing WIAA fall tournaments and you choose to have the
flag on your uniform it must be on the left sleeve. Officials that
officiate together (i.e. football crew, basketball partners, etc.) must
display the flag in the same manner."

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Joan Gralla
WIAA

There you have it...here in WI anyway.

Thanks again fellas.

I guess post 9 and the Officials Guidebook weren't good enough references for you?

The best choice is "don't bother with the flag in the first place."

Sorry...didn't catch that reply, Rich. And like I said, I think they should be mandatory, and I think they look good and dress up the uniform with a bit more class. Two of my guys are military vets, one is a police officer, I have 2 family members overseas right now and between the 2 crews I either run or work with, there are another 6 currently in the military. I know that's not how you meant it, but the flag supposedly being a bother is a shame in it's own right.

I don't see any correlation between sports officiating and wearing a flag. I really don't get it. I don't wear a flag on any of my street clothes, why should I wear one when I am on the field/court?

And yes, having to sew anything on a shirt is a bother...I don't care if it is a state association patch, position placket, numbers, or a flag.

I will say this. We do not follow any NF guidelines because mechanics and uniform choices are not up to the NF. These are state regulations that ultimately govern what officials wear or do not wear. Many states require patches and the NF has not language to as to how they are to be placed or where they are to be placed. States can follow any mechanic regulation they want to (my state does not even follow NF Mechanics in any sport) and uniform regulations they want to. This is why you might see basketball officials wearing different shirts than what is stated in the NF book. I know in baseball we can wear any number of shirt colors as long as they have a state patch on those shirts. Playoffs we default to a specific shirt.

Peace

We can have a pi$$ing match about this all day if you want. You and several others don't care for them...I and several other officials do.

I like them, I think they're decent and professional looking, and add a little class, maybe even a bit of pride, respect, or authority to the uniform as a whole. Something that is seriously missing in society when you see all of the flack and incidents that are happening between refs/umps and fans, players and such.

Obviously, you don't get why me or any of my crew want to wear them either. It's not about how much work it is to have your wife, sister, mom, or sporting goods store put a patch on your shirt(s). Getting a patch sewn on, temp glued, or velcroed on by yourself takes about as much energy as it does to get out of bed....or to get into position or out of the way when a play is coming right at you, for that matter.

I came here looking for in-depth insight to various areas of officiating certain sports, to share some things that I've seen over 15 years of officiating, and to bounce questions off of some others that have worked their sports long enough to give a concise, common, and correct answer to anything I may have an interest in and to see what others have witnessed over the course of their careers. A good portion of you guys seem like you're out for an argument rather than trying to point someone in the right direction. Maybe some of you should be coaching or in the stands instead, where you apparently see it all.

I think you covered it when you observed, "I really don't get it.". It's not about a correlation between sports officiating and our flag.

It's about respect, it's about 9/11, it's about honoring those who are spread out around the globe so we're able to enjoy participating in a great game back home without fearing that something terrible might happen just for being there. It's about being proud enough about being blessed as an American, to designate yourself as an American.

Unfortunately, if you really don't "get it", it's doubtful you ever will.

You made a statement that people here have the right to disagree with. And it is completely in the right for people to question you one why you feel that way. If that is a problem, then a discussion board is not going to be for you, because that is what we do here is debate several issues and that does include what we put on our uniforms. I personally wear a flag on my uniform and it is optional. Just about everyone does it where I live, because when 9-11 took place, it was obvious football season. Those around here, starting wearing flags on our jersey (which there was not standard policy if I remember correctly before that time) around that time and did not wear them before that incident. We have done it ever since, but I do not know if it is useful or appropriate. And that is why on every other sport I work. I do not wear a flag at all. I will do it only because the crew and most crews do it in football. But if someone does not put one on their jersey, it is no skin off my back. It was a legitimate question to ask you why you feel that way and you still have not answered the question. I think wearing a flag does not make you more patriotic or is something that needs to be displayed on a uniform of non-governmental people like officials are in their role during games. We are independent contactors and only working because our states allow us to work. Flags to me are not necessary for our jobs. And when you say they should be mandatory, people want to know why considering that even the government suggest that the proper display of flags are not to go on uniforms. ;)

Peace

That event is not the only tragedy in this countries history. There was the Oklahoma City Bombing that involved governmental agencies and people working in those agencies both military and civilian casualties, and no one was wearing a flag after that event. ;) And the event was done in direct conflict with the U.S. Government, but the terrorist were from this country. And if that is the only reason, in my opinion that is not a very good reason. Just like it was not a very good reason for Presidential Candidates to wear a flag on their suits for the same reason. And even in that case, the biggest critics of people not wearing flags on their lapel, were some of the same people that did not wear them either but were claiming everyone that was "against America" that did not decide to wear such a symbol. This is not the first war we have had in this country or the first tragic event, so and that is why some people "do not get" why this event was so different?

Peace

I do think it's a bother, but that's not it -- I have one basketball shirt with a flag so I match my partners. But I'm the CC on my football crew and we'll never put flags on our football shirts.

I do not need to wear a flag patch to be patriotic. I do not need to advertise my patriotism (or religion or anything else...). I think the trend of wearing flags on officiating uniforms is unnecessary and unfortunate and, well, a violation of the flag code, to boot.

If it isn't about sports officiating then do you wear a flag on your street clothes?

The part I do not understand is why many people would never wear a flag on their street clothes but when they go out to officiate they wear shirts with flags. To them there must be some correlation between officiating and patriotism as if it was about respect and all the things you said then they would wear one on their street clothes also.

Some of us have been here for a decade or near to it and ask questions about OFFICIATING and talk about OFFICIATING. You've made 9 posts and most of them have to do with a flag patch and nothing to do with officiating. Maybe someone else should be in the stands.

Oddly, the US Flag Code states that it's disrespectful to place the flag on athletic uniforms.

Go figure.

Point is Rich, I came looking for advice. I got advice and then I also got what I consider more of a chastising because I was for the flags. I have no qualms whatsoever with anyone questioning my reasons. I cut my teeth in reffing back in my early twenties with a man that was Chief of Police in my city. He was also a highly decorated vet from the Vietnam War. In his last year of officiating, also the year of the 9/11 tragedy, we thought we would honor him to a degree, and our country....something I apparently need to defend to some of the guys who have responded today. I took over that same crew and over a few years have added some great crew members who also happen to be military veterans with one currently being a police officer. We thought it would be a nice touch to add.

I can tell you that back in 2001 when we wore the flag for the remainder of that season, people would comment on how much they thought the flags looked great and how they looked a part of the uniform.

I can tell by your comments alone that many a good official have probably walked away from this forum due to pure attitude. If I didn't have to defend a simple 2"x3" flag to the bitter end like a cornered pit bull, you're right I'd have about 4 total posts. And you having 10 years of seniority on one of probably 20 or more different officiating forums across the country makes you obviously the best official here or anywhere.

I'll stop by now again to look at or address something I may come across. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing you working the big game next February. You're obviously far and away the cream of the crop...at least from WI, anyway.

You asked where a flag should be given. I told you (post 9). You stated they should be mandatory. I find that stupid. Am I not entitled to my opinion the same as you are entitled to yours? I think the US Flag Code is pretty compelling, personally. My personal opinion is that requiring a flag takes away all meaning of the flag -- I'll take that a step further -- requiring that ALL members of the crew (which you have to do if anyone wears the flag) wear one either means that all people really feel strongly over it (which is fine, and I would never tell you that you couldn't wear one), or some are simply wearing it to fit in, which I find a terrible reason to wear one.

My point, later, was this: On Internet boards it's polite to come in and get to know the people who have made this a community, not come in like a bull in a china shop and try to throw weight around. It's much more pleasant around here if you get to know us before calling us names.

And I don't consider myself anything special -- just another official running around the fields of southern Wisconsin Friday nights (and frequently other nights) in the fall with a few of my closest friends.

I don't know anybody, nor really care, about those who may have criticized someone else's "patriotism" either for wearing a flag, or not wearing one. In NY, certified H.S. football officials were instructed to wear small flags, following the 9/11 incident at varsity level games.

I'm not aware of any officials who had a problem with that instruction and most that I know, wear the same shirts, with flags appropriately attached, at all level games, and do so willingly, without reservation.

I'm not interested in trying to educate any adult about what is unique about the 9/11 incident, or why it stands out against other similar acts, or that what it represents may well be a reference to a summary of other similar acts. My personal understanding, which may or may not be totally accurate, is that the instruction to add flags to our uniforms was to some extent intended to show solidarity, honor and support for those that were lost on 9/11/01, as well as those who choose to stand in harm's way, on my behalf since that date so that I may continue to enjoy all the benefits my status as an American provide.

I afixed flags to my football shirts because I was directed to by my State Association, but I have no problem or reservation doing so, and actually believe it is an appropriate demonstration of well deserved respect and appreciation for those serving our nation. Many Americans choose, individually, to wear American flag pins, or other representations, on their everyday attire out of a similar sense of respect and appreciation.

It's not required, or mandatory nor should doing so be subject to speculation or question, as it's clearly an individual decision and choice. Individuals who elect to criticize , or question the motivation of, others for wearing a flag representation are as out of place as any who chose to criticize those choosing not to wear a flag representation.

It's not necessary that anyone, "get it" any more that it's necessary for someone to question, or disparage, those who do. However it is not uncommon that the willingness, or refusal, to pay earned and due respect very likely contributes to the overall perception of an individual formed by others.

amjc,

I am glad you want to wear a flag and that is your opinion to do so. But for the rest of us that do not want to wear a flag or think it is not necessary, that is our right. And that is why only in football I wear them because people on my crew seem to think we all have to have the same things on our uniform. In my other sports I am not wearing a flag. I think it is ultimately inappropriate considering the codes and unnecessary, end of story.

Peace

Anyone know why they are worn in a reverse flag look?

The flag is always flown with the canon forward.

If a flag patch is worn, military regulations require that "The full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is worn so that the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward.

The rule dates back to the Army's early history, when both mounted cavalry and infantry units would designate a standard bearer, who carried the Colors into battle. As he charged, his forward momentum caused the flag to stream back. Since the Stars and Stripes are mounted with the canton closest to the pole, that section stayed to the right, while the stripes flew to the left."

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner....LOL I spent 9 yrs in the US Army Infantry. The flag had a special place in my heart. I will wear it and wear it proud

wear did you see a canon on the flag?

canton

No, you got chastised for saying it should be mandatory. I'm all for the flags, in spite of the flag code. I also think if worn, they should be worn on the right sleeve per the flag code. But that's not how it's done here; and I'm in a military town. I think it should be optional, though.

Not an NFHS requirement, it is a requirement for New York. The whole controversy over where to wear it arose because one association wore it over the heart and was threatened with de-certification if they persisted.

Personally, I think on the back is retreat position, I want Osama to see me charging directly at his sorry butt proudly displaying the American flag.

Let's see, you're the WH, so for Osama to see you charging his sorry butt he'd have to be a double jointed O-lineman.:D

Agree, completely. Unfortunately I work games in a state that thinks we can win the war on terror if only officials will wear the flag.

Can't say for sure about the officials in whatever State you work in, "Mr. Umpire", but your comments suggest there is at least one really smug, arrogant official in the mix who has no problem mocking all of his fellow officials and presumes to speak for an entire State.

Did your fellow officials actually tell you what they think, or is that just something someone so full of themself is automatically blessed with?

I would agree, and unfortunately he ruled that we all had to wear the flag.

To me the back is a strange place to put it. Maybe the trend started in 2001 when the MLB teams did it. I can't recall teams putting flags there before then.

Kind of how I feel about it. But if my boss tells me to wear this or that, then...

Incidentally, I haven't seen any flags on HS officials in OR.

:D

As a side note, I've noticed people are losing their ability to recognize sarcasm.

Seems as though you missed his point...

One more little nuance to add to this is the flag on your uniform one with a gold border or a white border???

Couple years ago at our college clinic we were informed flags with the gold border should only be worn by veterans or those who served in the military and the white borders by others.

It was quite interesting but everybody agreed and honored that fact.

Something else for you all to quibble about ;)

The gold/white officially makes this ridiculous. I thought the idea was uniformity. I'm all for recognizing veterans in the right situation, but on the football field doing a job isn't the right situation.