Here is the question:

Fourth and 12 on the B-48 yard line. A punt bounces at the B-14 yard line, rolls to the B-4 yard line where A18 muffs it. B31 picks up the ball at the B-2 yard line and runs to the B-45 yard line where he is hit and fumbles. A62 recovers and is downed at the B-44 yard line. During B31's run, B56 illegally blocked A45 in the back above the waist at the B-20 yard line and B94 clipped A8 at the B-40 yard line.

Here is my stab at it (NCAA):

Team A ball at the B 25, 1st and 10, unless A declines the penalty, then B ball at the 4 for illegal touching.

I don't officiate NCAA rules but I'll take a stab at it:

Team A cannot keep the ball. If they accept either penalty, it's B's ball. If they decline the penalty, B would get the ball at the spot of illegal touching. That would be the best option for A, since B would get the ball at their own 4 yard line. 6-3-2a,b

Under NF, Team A could keep the ball. To keep the ball, Team A must decline both penalties. Touching the ball by A18 is not illegal touching, it's first touching. Team B is only allowed to take the ball at the spot of first touching if they do not touch the ball and then foul afterwards. When they fouled, they lost the privilege.

What a challenge for a referee. Here is the NFHS version.

1) At B's 4 A18 muff is first touching violation -- drop a bean bag.

2) B commits illegal block in the back above the waist at B's 20. Drop a flag.

3) B commits a clip at B's 40. Drop a flag.

4) B31 fumbles at B's 45 -- drop a bean bag.

5) At conclusion of play I would call both captains. Captain A to make a choice and B to hear the choices since this is complicated.

6) The conversation goes something like this;
"Captain A, if you want the ball you must decline the two penalties against B."

I would stop the explanation there because he will never hear the remainder of the conversation, anyway. A gets the ball if the penalty is declined because in order to penalize B they must retain possession since a change of possession occurs after the foul.

7) A good Ed Hochuli-type explanation goes something like this to explain all the cloth scattered on the field.

"We have multiple fouls against B. A block in the back and a clip. These fouls occurred before change of possession gave the ball to A. In order for A to retain possession, by rule, A must decline the penalties against B. Therefore, both penalties are declined. First down for A at B's 44."

BTW. The first touching is ignored since B took possession.

It's certainly a scary difference between NCAA and NF rules. Those who work both must have a tough time keeping them straight! :eek:

Luckily, in Texas we only have the one set. It sure makes it easier to study.

Team A WILL NOT get to keep the football. If Team A accepts either penalty, this will eliminate the illegal touching but Team B will retain possession because they had the ball when the foul occurred. If Team A declines the penalty then Team B gets the ball at the 4 yd line because of the illegal touching.

The consequences of illegal touching are eliminated if there are offsetting fouls or an accepted penalty for a foul by either team during the down.

**Thanks to Rogers Redding for his easy to understand interpretation for this situation. Anyone who works under NCAA rules would be well advised to get a copy of his REFEREE'S STUDY GUIDE, which he puts out every season.

I am going to a workshop in Denton that he is instructing. I am hoping they will have the book on sale there. You are the second person to recommend it. What part of Texas do you work?

[Edited by Sleeper on Jun 13th, 2002 at 03:08 PM]