Missing tailbone pad puts team in the playoffs
 

A similar play involving a towel happened last year. We discussed it at our clinic and the consensus was not to penalize it if we did not catch it before the game started. It was suggested that we have the player leave until he was legal. The coach had a rule book and demanded the crew enforce it. I guess they could have checked his team and came up with a missing tag on someone’s glove to make it offset. What do you think of this?


Lodi Cloverleaf sneaked into the playoffs — by the seat of an opposing player's pants.

Medina Highland recovered a fumble in the first overtime and was about to kick what would be the game-winning field goal when Cloverleaf's coaching staff pointed out to officials that kicker Eric Duale wasn't wearing the required tailbone pad. After a 15-yard penalty, the 30-yard kick became a 45-yarder and Duale missed it wide right.

Highland fumbled in the second overtime, Cloverleaf's Allen Bittaker recovering, to set up Kyle Juszczyk's 16-yard touchdown run which put the Colts in the Division II, Regional 6 playoffs for the very first time.

Cloverleaf's coaches had noticed Duale wasn't wearing the pad earlier in the game but waited to tell the referees.

"That was the game right there," said Cloverleaf coach Kevin Gault. "It was the turning point. It's hard to come back when that happens."

Highland coach Tom Lombardo was mystified by the turn of events.

"I'm as baffled as you guys," Lombardo said to reporters

The Courier,Findlay, Ohio: SPORTS Wednesday, October 29, 2008

Is that the correct administration of the situation under Fed rules? Seems a little harsh

I'd be sorely tempted to...."OK coach, but since you saw fit not to bring a safety issue up when you knew it was there, I'm also about to go thru every one of your players to see how many equipment violations I can find. Do we really want to go there?"

Good call by the officials!

Since when do we allow coaches to point out the fouls that we call. Let them complain all they want, but if they insist then call a timeout and check everyone of their players to. I guarantee you that we can find something wrong. There's just know way, if I didn't find fault during the pregame walk thru, that I then penalized them at the end of the game like that. Let alone, flag it because a coach points it out. We'll do the officiating and let them do the coaching.

If a player is not properly equipped, it's an USC foul on the head coach, since he confirmed before the game that they were all properly equipped.

I don't know how it is in Texas, but around here most teams wear all the required equipment. Saying your are going to check one team (you are only checking players, not reserves) and find something wrong is a stretch

So you make sure that each player is wearing the 7 required pads in his pants? You really don't think that there is a chance that one of the 70 players on the team is only wearing 6 and you missed it before the game?

And if you're not calling a foul at the end of the game, what are you going to do? Allow this player to play when you know he isn't legal? That isn't a good idea. Your best choice would be to call the foul, if teams don't want to be penalized they can wear the required equipment.

I'm just saying I don't think it is right for the coach to tell the official what to enforce. Do we call everything "by the book". No. We use common sense in certain situations. The intent of any required equipment rule is to prevent a player from being injured. As I commented on another forum about this subject, I think that we should do everything possible to get the situation corrected. If we've gone all game long without doing penalizing them and apparently that coach knew about it all game long and waited until the end of the game to point it out is just plain wrong. If he was truly concerned about the well-being of that player then he would have pointed it out when he first noticed it. I'd have to have some proof he wasn't wearing one. Call a timeout and walk the kid to his bench to "check" and see if he has the pad on. Don't just take the other coaches word. Let them correct it and move on with the game. Then go to the other coach and tell him, "Coach we appreciate you pointing out the potentional unsafe condition of that player. Safety is our number one goal and we got it corrected thanks to your help. Without you pointing that out he could have suffered a serious injury. The coach of the other team asked me to thank you looking out for his players." At least under NCAA rules, if we are going to flag this then it will be just a charged timeout to that team and only a 5 yard penalty if they don't have timeouts.

Wow! Not a good situation to be in.

Jason, like it or not, if the opposing coach points out that a player is not wearing the required equipment and he participated in the previous play I don't see how you can't enforce the penalty. The coach was probably told by one of his own players that the opposing player was lacking the piece of equipment. The coach has now informed you that he suspects that the equipment is missing and your inspection confirms it to be true.

Are you going to tell the coach that he's right but you're going to ignore the rule and not penalize?

It's not an enviable position to be in but the opposing coach was asked before the game if all of his players were properly equipped. Presumably, he said 'yes'.

The coach isn't telling the officials what to enforce. The other team isn't following the rules and the coach pointed it out to the official.

I think if this player did not participate in the previous down, you have rule support from case book play 1.5.1G (a) to send the player off to have it corrected. If he did participate and you know for a fact he did, you don't have much choice on this by rule.

I agree except I would state, "I think if we did not specifically see this player participate on the previous down, and if we did not specifically see during at time that the equipment was missing..." Heck, with a coach like this, I wouldn't put it past him to have stolen the pad on the last play.

How do you steal a tailbone pad when a guy is wearing it? :confused:

As a referee, I would stop the play and send the kicker off to get a new tailbone pad. This is a safety foul and it needs to be fixed before the next play, but the 15yard USC is overkill. Lets not forget, we're out there to insure the players safety and to proveide a fair contest. We need to look for ways to have a good game and NOT impact the outcome.

Sloth has it right.

So what would be your call if he lined up to kick without a helmet?

If the kicker is also the team's star QB who just threw a 50-yard bomb to set up the potential winning FG you're going to have a hard time not enforcing the rule about participating without wearing the required equipment.

It's a tough spot to be in but unless you decide to willfully set aside a rule I don't see what else you can do.

This is a garbage statement. We're officials and we're out there to enforce the rules, not to invoke our sense of fairness. Sometimes you have to make the game impacting call. Sometimes you have to enforce a rule that impacts the game. If you're not willing to make the call or enforce the rule that will impact the game you may as well stay home because you're not doing your job.

This one has my head spinning as to exactly how I would have handled that situation. Think about what you would do if a player ran out on the field without his helmet. I'm thinking I would tell him that he forgot his helmet and go get it. If he replaced someone and became a "player", by rule this would now he a penalty under 1.5.5. Would the opposing coach have demanded a penalty for that? I really don't think so. However, for some reason I think I would treat the tail pad differently and enforce the 15 yard USC. I certainly don't look for tail pads, but if it's brought to my attention then I have no choice. I certainly wouldn't start inspecting the other team for some violation or other. We could spend the rest of the night doing that. How many of you would consider the fact that he participated in the previous down without the required equipment. Could the TD be called back at this point? Why is the rule 5 yards during a play, but 15 after?

The officials are not out there to do what is fair, they are there to officiate the game by the rules. It is not your job to decide what the proper penalty is.

That is a myth spread by TV announcers. Everything the officials do the entire game impacts the outcome.

I agree with 2 key points stated so far:
1. This is a crap tactic by the coach who's asking for the penalty.
2. If the opposing team wants to avoid being "victimized" by such tactics, all they have to do is follow the rules.

That said, I can't see a way to avoid assessing the penalty here. The closest thing would be to say that I didn't see the player participate without the pad on the previous play.

But if I knew he did participate -- if he's the QB, for instance -- it's just not plausible to say that somehow he lost the pad after the play.

So in the end I'd probably do what the R did in this game: assess the penalty and let the chips fall where they may. I agree with Luke's philosophy of enforcing the rules, at least up to the standards set by my state and my association.

I agree and am posting the rule for those without access to a book.
1-5-5 "When any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation. An official’s time-out shall be declared to permit prompt repair of equipment which becomes illegal or defective through use. (See 3-5-2b, 5b and 7f)"

I do not think you can delay the ready in this situation. The equipment did not become illegal or defective through use. So I would go ahead with the ready. If they can get a pad in and get the ball snapped within 25, all is well. Otherwise, they can spend a timeout or take the delay penalty.

Any statement can be taken to an extreme where it becomes counterproductive. "We need to look for ways to have a good game and NOT impact the outcome." is absolutely correct, unless of course, you extend it far beyond what it was intended to suggest.

We are absolutely "out there to do what is fair" as directed by the rules and our common sense application of those rules. Common sense and an understanding of why we're there may well be our most important contribution to the game. Managing the game in compliance with the rules is the stated objective, but not a single one of us, knows the rules so well that we can guarantee absolutely correct compliance in every situation, no matter how unique or rare.

Our role is to make decisions (hopefully informed decisions) instantly in response to any number of situations we may never have confronted before. We do not have the luxury of detailed perusal of the rules for each decision, other than what exists in our personal memory banks.

There will be times when those memory banks, including those of all crew mwmbers, simply don't produce a difinitive answer, and all we're left with is our own common sense, an understanding of the object of the game and a personal sense of fairness, to get us through.

Despite all the hype and pressure some choose to place on the outcome of any High School (even College or Professional) football game, it's not going to really effect how the sun comes up tomorrow.

Without seeing this player on the field and participating it I would have a hard time penalizing them at the point when the coach pointed it out. "Coach, we didn't catch it the play before but we are going to make sure it doesn't happen again." I've had games where pads did come out during the play. No foul there. Send them off and get it fixed.

As an official we are to enforce the rules. I believe, but not being Merriam Webster, so I could be wrong but mandatory means that it must be worn. The penalty for the coach sending out a player without the mandatory equipment is the 15 yard USC. If we catch it during a play, we could always throw the 5 yard failure to wear penalty.

In my opinion, the officals were right at that time for the penalty. They have no choice but to enforce the rules as they are written. There is no room for philosphy here. Philosophy would have been earlier in the game and doing preventive officiating. Look at the players as the come on and off the field. If they would have noticed the kicker didn't have the pad, send him off early in the game. Fix the problem then. Obviously the other coaches saw it. Of course that could have been from watching film.

To me, that is a smart play by the coach.

You are forgetting that 1.5.5 comes with a USC penalty enforcement.

Player should be sent off to correct the problem if the play has not started.
I bet a quick look at both teams on the field will show at least one player with a shirt untucked. ; ) Call the penalty against both teams and get on with the game. 007

So your going to tell me that you call every rule in the book, every play...no exceptions? We warn players all the time about stuff. How many times do we over look holding or a BIB that is not severe or at the point of attack? So as a referee, had the coach not noticed the missing tailpad and you had,would you have hit him for a 15 yard USC? If not, then the coach just talked you into a call you would not have made otherwise.

I've been starting to dabble in DIII JV games. I've taken a lot of great high level concepts from the meetings I've been to. One of them is "not to be a pioneer"-don't look for inventive ways to enforce the rules. Another is "make the foul matter if your going to enforce if it's in a close game"...in other words don't be too technical in close games. Yes, we may impact the outcome of a game, but it has to matter to the game.

The equipment rules are there to insure the safety of the players. If the coach notices that a piece of equipment is missing, you should thank him for his attention to detail, stop the game to fix the problem then play on. The absence of a tailpad didn't give one team an advantage over the other...why have a game decidd because an official decided that he was going to lay down the law and mak an example of a situation.

At the end of the day, I'd rather be known as the offical that used good prudent judgement it that situation to address an issue in a non-impactful way as opposed to an official that knocked a team out of field goal range because of a missing tailbone pad. I'd venture a guess that 9 out of 10 coaches would agree that is the proper way to handle this foul.

Go back and read my post again. That's not even close to what I wrote and it's not relevant to the situation.

I have no problem making the big call when it is warrented. I do have a problem making a tickey tackey call that will impact the outcome of a game.

You never answered one of my questions. Had the coach not raised this as an issue (and you noticed on your own) would you have flagged it as a USC or would you have warned the player and made him become uniform compliant? Unless you would have thrown the flag without the coach promping you to do so, you got talked into a call.

And you would have rule justification for sending the player off as opposed to penalizing before participating. Rule 1-5-5 "when any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation". I too have sent players off when they entered without required equipment.

And this is what I would've done and slept like a baby that night, too.

Mr. Referee, my coach would like a time out to discuss the misapplication of a rule.

No to answer the preaching from above - yes, of course I've sent players off when they haven't been wearing the proper equipment. But I've never done so after being informed by a coach that a player who participated in the previous play wasn't wearing what's required.

You go explain to the coach why you're ignoring a rule that he seems to be well versed in.

Once again, why isn't anyone reading the bold print below 1.5.5 that says PENALTY????????????????

You mean this text?

PENALTY: Unsportsmanlike conduct (Arts. 2, 3, 5) – (S27) — 15 yards. See 9-
8-1h. Failure to properly wear required equipment during a down (Art. 6) –
(S27, S23) – 5 yards. See 3-6-2d for failure to properly wear required
equipment when the ball is about to become live.

I've thought about this because I would have to talk to him. I'd go like this "Coach, I appreciate your observation and helping us to correct a safety concern. The player in question will not be allowed to participate in the game until he has the proper equipment." If he presses me for the flag I'd tell him "Coach, thats up to my discression and I've made my descision. You have my name, any complaints can be addressed to the IHSAA."

This is a no-call that I'd defend anywhere, to anyone...and stake my reputation as a white hat on it.

sloth, that makes you a man of integrity and a model for the officials code of ethics in my book. Good for you, sir! I am serious about this and thank you for being so bold!

I wouldn't call this in the 1st quarter and I'm CERTAINLY not calling this in the 4th.

We are reading the penalty, but we contend it does not apply because of of the wording in 1-5-1, where the mandatory equipment for individuals who participate is listed. If a substitute comes into the game, he has not participated and, therefore, the penalty is not applicable.

1-5-5 says he must have all required equipment before he is allowed to particpate and I will send him off to make those corrections.

"He has my ruling. No time out. Let's go."

If I go over there and it comes out that he knew about this and withheld this for the "right moment" he's likely going to end up with an USC flag. So it's better I don't even go over there.

Sloth,

I am surprised there is this much disagreement with you on this situation. I've just read through all the posts and agree 100% with how you would handle the situation. Thanks.

This is exactly how I feel about this play as well. There are lots of fouls pointed out by coaches that are technically correct (i.e. foot in the NZ by a receiver, slight movement by a lineman before the snap, hold by a tackle away from the play), but we use good judgement on whether or not to penalize a team for it.

I sleep like a baby most nights...
 

Waking up every three hours, crying and looking for a breast to suck on? ;)

I'm with Sloth too. This is a BS move by a coach and I would simply send the kid off without penalty.

As much as I admit I am not well versed with American rules, IMHO this is well outside the "spirit of the game" and I would use my discretion as an official to ensure this match was decided by play and strategy, not a coach who feigns concern for an opposing player's safety by waiting until an opportune moment to mention it to an official.

This reminds me a bit of the ice hockey rule concerning the curvature of a player's stick. There is a limit as to how curved a stick can be (thanks Bobby Hull!) so it was not uncommon for coaches to note an opposing player's stick that was likely exceeding the legal limit and then "call the penalty" when they needed a manpower advantage. What happened then of course was stick challenges all over the place, delaying numerous games, until the NHL decided to penalize incorrect challenges to this rule with a two minute penalty to the team that complained to the officials.

I know what I would say in any hearing that I might be called too afterwards too. "So, coach, you saw a potentially dangerous safety issue for a player on the field and you did not immediately report it? What if the players tailbone had been damaged permanently? Were you prepared to live with that knowing you could have prevented it?"

It's definitely an asshat move.

There's a Mr. McSorley on line two for you. :)

Which would make for a great Aaron Sorkin-esque moment in the proceedings, for sure. Not sure it would help your case, though.

These are sticky situations and this isn't an easy game to officiate. People who think it is should try it sometimes.

I'm just glad I didn't have to make this call. Because I'd be very inclined to just send the kid off and tell him he couldn't participate and let the coach ***** all he wanted. I think that's the right thing to do.

There is a baseball play that comes to mind, I believe it was George Brett who was using a bat with more pine tar than allowed and Billy Martin was the Yankees manager. Martin saw Brett use the bat several times until one day he hit a crucial home run. Martin asked for the bat to be inspected taking away the home run from Brett.

But more important for football is a missing tailbone protector can subject the player to the possibility of permanent paralysis. I would rather be criticized for "over officiating" than being light on player protection.

You know that the Royals protested and had that call overturned, right? The Home Run counted and they won the game.

Pine Tar Game

This wasn't pointed out for the player's safety, it was merely pointed out to gain an advantage by the opposing coach.

Brett's bat did violate the rule. But the AL President ruled that the bat didn't violate the "spirit of the rule."

The Royals did win, but they did have to play from the point of protest weeks later to complete the game. It was a big ol' mess.

My understanding is that in Canada is that a coach bringing to our attention an equipment violation is a flag. Doing otherwise is contrary to the national rules interpretor. Now, if that info hasn't filtered down to all levels.......

Only after a bad set of youth games...