Measurement
 

I was wondering if any other crews get a new ball on a measurement that is short and outside the hashmarks? The new ball is then placed at the hash by marking with the chain.

Or does your crew just take the ball that was used on the previous play and have the white hat carry it over in one hand and the mark on the chain with the other hand?

Thanks for the help and advice.
HLC

For games where we have multiple game balls, yes we do. We leave the ball used to do the measurement on the ground, and the new ball is used for the next play. It's rare that we'll have a ball boy in most HS games, though.

So in most games, yes, the WH will carry the ball over wit the chain for the next down placement.

In the university games that I do, naturally we have multiple game balls and we follow the full procedure.

Same as JR. HS usually one ball used per team, so carry it over, but in my college games we leave the one and have a new one placed.

I only do high school and we take the original ball from its spot outside the inbounds lines.

But we also have two game balls for each team. That way we can change out balls if they get wet or muddy. We can also get another ball if we get a deep pass that goes OOB and get back to the game more quickly. The biggest time saver is on field goals and trys. The ball boys set one ball right behind the goal post and go to catch the other ball. We take the second while they chase the kicked ball.

We usually have at least 3 or 4 balls for each team (some more some less). Each team also provides a ball boy and some are better than others. Most are 12-14 year old boys so their focus can tend to wander. A good ball boy sure helps with the flow of the game though. We swap balls when it makes sense...wet/muddy, long incomplete pass, field goal/extra point. We usually carry the ball in on measurements but it doesn't become an issue often. We use the mechanic of starting each new series on a hash (if possible) so we know if the line to gain was reached if the ball reached a hash. This has greatly reduced the number of measurements we have. When we get a field without hashes (only once this year), we know we are going to have some measurements that night.

"HASH" marks are only placed on every 5 yardline. So what you do is to spot the ball on one of the yardline markers if present. I think that is fine but only on a change of possession should this be done. That's my opinion and the opinion of many others.

We've had eight games so far and only one measurement and is with leaving the ball where it lies after every first down. It's not a big deal evenon the poorest of markings on the field.

It's also the opinion of every major college conference and NFL so I'm going to go with it. That's where we learned the mechanic.

It's only a difference of a half yard at the beginning of the series. The times you don't do it is when the offense barely picks up a first down or if they are inside the 10. Yes...I mean the yardline markers. I think everyone understood what I meant.

Do what you want, but I doubt its the opinion of every college conference in the great USA. I know of several that do not do this on a regular basis. I could care less what the NFL does. They are two levels of separation from high school ball. But as I just said, do what your area tells you, right wrong or indifferent.

As far as the hash mark correction goes, I had to bring it up as I don't know for sure you are a new official or an official at the end of your career, but you were using incorrect statements of definitions. I expect to be corrected if I improperly use a definition.

What's a hash mark?
I only do baseball/softball, but I'm pretty sure they're called inbound lines. :)

http://www.goallineathletics.com/hsFieldLayout.html

Reeeaaaallly. I didn't know the book actually called them that. Thanks.

So I guess I was using the right terminology. When we walk on the field, one of our first comments is "Great...they have hash marks on the field."

Everyone I've talked to that works in major college football (and small college for that matter) uses the hash mark technique. Many of the HS crews in our area are using it now as well since we attend clinics put on my these officials. I was white hat at a JV game yesterday and it saved us on 3 or 4 measurements.

Use whatever mechanic you want but I know we've become much more efficient since implementing this a couple years ago. Once we explain it to the coaches they are impressed by our little "trick".

Correct, hash=inbounds lines

right from rule 1:

e. Inbounds lines “a series of hash marks” should be 24 inches in length and 4 inches in width and shall be located 53 feet, 4 inches from and parallel with each sideline dividing the field of play longitudinally in thirds. The inbounds lines shall be marked so that each 5-yard line bisects the hash mark.
NOTES:
1. Game administration may place on the field of play, at the inbounds lines, yardline extensions that should be 24 inches in length and 4 inches in width.
...

I underlined the word parallel.
What BisonBJ is referring to are what the rule calss "yardline extensions"
The two markings are not the same.

For NFHS rules the ball cannot, by rule, be substituted. You can only replace a ball at the start of a series.

They cannot request a change, but we change the ball anytime it becomes dead outside the numbers(nine yard marks) with a ball of the same composition. It really speeds up game administration when the wing is spotting the ball and the BJ is getting a new ball from the side line.

REPLY: Ed, I don't believe that's quite what the rule says. It says that a team may designate a ball to use at the start of a series, but it never says that the officials are not allowed to substitute a ball. What do you do when there's a long incomplete pass downfield? Do you wait for the BJ or wing to retrieve it and relay it back to the umpire at the previous spot?

If at all possible, we will get a new ball when the measurement shows that they were short of the LTG. Reason is in case the chain link marking position of the ball is pulled from the R's hand as he walks to the inbounds line, the old ball at the spot can be used once more as a reference point.

NFHS Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A basically states you must use the same ball for an entire series and considers the try an extension of the series.

Huh? THEY cannot substitute a ball, but we most certainly can. You chase long incomplete passes downfield instead of getting a ball from the ball boy? What if the weather's wet, you never bring in a dry football?

The rule is pretty specific NFHS 1-3-2 and Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A. The intent of the rule is that once you start a series that particular ball must be used for the entire series. Notice the Case Book cites four different situations (1) requesting a rubber ball on 2nd down after using a leather ball on 1st, (2) requesting a different leather ball for 4th down on a dry day (3) requests a different leather ball for the try (4) A recovers on a kickoff. Only 4 is allowed.

NFHS 1-3-3 does allow changing balls during a down if the ball is wet.

Yup. All of those are places where the TEAM requests a change. Again, I can change it at any time. Nothing stops ME from doing so. We do it all the time, when the ball is incomplete deep.

Once again, by failing to understand the intent of a rule, an official creates problems for himself and the game.

The intent of the rule is specific: It prohibits the TEAMS from requesting a change of ball. It DOES NOT prohibit the officials from substituting a new ball when appropriate. Bringing one in after a long incomplete where the ball bounds another 20 plus yards out of bounds to keep the flow of the game moving is very appropriate.

Not to belabor the point but the rule is designed to keep teams from getting their favorite ball in on certain situations. Read the NFHS Officials' Manual page 67 III.B.5.c as it says nothing about getting a new ball.

Officials can replace balls when wet but dry balls must be used for the entire series.

That is the rule as it applies to the game including officials.

But I do like and wish we could use the procedure you use.

Exactly. It is NOT about prohibiting an official from substituting a ball.

Glad we can agree.

It is not that we are in agreement it is just that I like the way you replace balls. But I would not do it and know that it is incorrect according to NFHS Rules -- in your area this may be the practice although incorrect.

Again, the rules I quoted from NFHS and the Officials Manual dictate a ball stays for an entire series and NOWHERE does it give officials the authority to replace balls during a series unless the ball is wet.

Sometimes it's easy to read more into a rule than is intended. A team is limited from substituting a ball within a series of downs, but there is no prohibition, or limit, relating to officials substituting a ball when circumstances dictate, because such a prohibition would be impractical and serve no rational purpose.

As long as the ball being substituted is an approved ball, which can either be a ball approved prior to the game, or any ball approved for use during the game, even if at the moment of exchange.

Above all else, the sensible application of rules requires common sense.

I'm not reading more into the rule about replacing balls, I'm reading the rules NFHS 1-3-2 and 1-3-3 as written supported by Case Book 1.3.2 which is seems many are not reading or understanding.

When officials on their own decide the rules do not apply to officials we set a dangerous precedence. Why do you think the Rules Committe writes the stupid book. Surprise! they actually expect us to enforce it like it or not. There is a procedure for modifying rules -- write to NFHS with your suggestions -- when you don't like them. Example, post scrimmage kick, many coaches and officials did not like the way penalties by R before change of possession gavethe ball back to K. It got changed, even though, some officials were enforcing their own version of it.

Trust me. The Rule Book is clear on when balls can be replaced and since I am not working with those who feel otherwise, have at it!

Using your misguided and incorrect logic, an official couldn't replace a ball that became deflated or even lost. The game would end.

It seems strange you can take part of the rule, that portion that limits replacing a ball, so literally, but you don't take the part the specifically refers to the TEAM, and no one else, as literally.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the rules that prohibits the official from replacing a ball for any reason. Nothing.

I am amazed that someone with the education you allege could be so void of logic.

Ed, what do you do in the rain? Do you mean to tell me that you don't allow the use of a dry ball?

Reading too much into it
 

Ed, I'm pretty sure you're alone in a crowd on this one. Let me see if I can expand on the place where the disconnect is, and if anyone disagrees with me, that's fine, too.

The case plays you cite, where a team wants to use a "different" leather ball are interpreted by all of us to mean a nice, new Wilson 1001 is being sent off so an old, smooth pumpkin that used to say Spalding is sent in to punt. Both are leather, but they're "different." Everyone here would agree that aint gonna happen.

But if a crew has checked a team's footballs before the game, marked them all, and they are all fully inflated, new nike footballs, we can replace one nice new football with another identical new, marked and approved football whenever we dang well please and it's not a "different" ball. Physically, it's not the exact same football, but in essence, it is.

We approve anywhere from 2-5 footballs before a game. Any of those are equal as far as we're concerned. The teams may not substitute them willy-nilly, but we can. I have never heard of an area where the officials didn't and I've officiated in 6 states.

It is interesting everyone's take on 1-3-2 and 1-3-3. In the local associations on Long Island and when I worked in California ball replacement has never been allowed. The ball you start on first down must complete the series and that is not the model of ball but the specific ball.

I would love to have the ability to replace balls during a series if we got a long incompletion rather than chase the ball to the parking lot. I am going to propose this to our interpreter.

BTW. On wet days teams can rotate balls at their leisure as per 1-3-3.

I also officiate in New York State. We have always had the ball boys bring in a ball on a long incomplete pass rather than have our BJ or wingman spend time chasing a ball bouncing out of bounds.

I have officiated in four states and have never run a cross such an intepretation as yours.

So far you are not only the Lone Ranger in my experience, but on this site as well.