Face Mask question NFL SD vs DEN
 

In this debacle of a game there was a face mask penalty awarded to Denver.

The play was called against cromartie, however cromartie did not grab his facemask, let alone grab and pull it down, and it did not appear to be intentional as he was actually going up for the football and the foul occurred after the pass went over his head.

he did however grasp the back of Marshalls helmet and brought him down.

Before he grabbed the back of his helmet, his hand brushed the facemask, but no grasping occured.

Did the crew missjudge this play the SJ was right in front of it? or are you not allowed to grab the back of a players helmet?

I really wish they did not get rid of the 5 banger, because this is a usually a judgement call and a tough one. Im sure some crews will be more lenient than others.

In the NFL, it is also a facemask if one grabs the underside of an opponent's helmet.

In the NFL, it is also a facemask if one grabs the earhole of an opponent's helmet.

The correct call was made.

This is also true in FED. Not sure about NCAA.

Also true in Canada. :D

Keep in mind that the original post was by someone who claims to be an official. :rolleyes:

Maybe the new feature of member-edittable tags is for tagging guys like the OP as trolls. :p

It is true for NCAA as well.

As it should be. Tackling anyone by any part of the helmet is extremely dangerous.

9-1-2-q
 

No player shall twist, turn or pull the face mask or any helmet opening of an opponent..............

and the biggest opening on a helmet is that part that the head fits through :D

You are an official and don't know this very basic rule? :confused:

If only the NFL would do something to educate the officials and get on the same page. When will they learn that each crew enforcing some things and ignoring others won't work? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Actually I'm pretty sure NCAA adopted the "any helmet opening" rule before either Fed or NFL.

But pulling on most parts wasn't so dangerous until the currently secured chin straps came into use. Used to be if you pulled on the back of the helmet, it just came off. Otherwise they'd've adopted the "any helmet opening" much earlier -- even before face bars came into use, if the 4-pt. attachment had come about earlier.

Robert

back of helmet
 

I am a first year official in pop warner, not claiming to be an expert asking a serious question and not looking for a smart-*** answer.

I am not famillar with the new rule changes in the NFL rulebook all I know is that they did away with the Garden variety facemask.

Since he did not grab an opening or the facemask, it should not have been ruled a penalty

He grabed the backside of the crown of the helmet and fell to the ground

Another missed call by this crew I hope Mike P. at the NFL office caught it

What exactly is the backside of the crown of the helmet that one can grab?

Can you steal a picture of a helmet from the web, open it up in Microsoft Paint, point an arrow to where you mean that someone grabbed?

I think it's a conspiracy. The NFL front office is out to make sure the Chargers lose every week. I'm sure they are also responsible for Rosario Dawson be wide open in the back of the end zone.

How come you haven't commented on the 2 face mask penalties that were missed in Monday night's game? Where's your outrage about that?

Which only existed for (what is to me) a short time anyway. This is one of those back-and-forth rule changes football goes thru. The differential penalty for the face mask violation was introduced by NCAA and eventually copied by other bodies because it was thought that the personal foul resulted in tiny differences in judgement between no call at all and a 15 yarder, resulting in inconsistent enforcement. It was thought that by introducing an intermediate possibility that it would take away this "ledge" or "cliff" between no protection at all and a severe penalty in mild cases. After years of experience, I guess they figured that it made calls even more inconsistent to have this intermediate judgement, leading to 5 yards (and a first down in the NFL) in cases where the player so contacted wasn't really endangered thereby. Maybe some decades from now they'll go thru this cycle again with this rule -- unless headgear will have changed in a way that makes the whole thing moot.

Robert

I suppose by "backside of the crown of the helmet" the poster is talking about the nape of the neck part, the area of the helmet where is at the spine but regardless of whether the face mask, an ear hole, or any edge of the helmet is grasped, regardless of that edge's position on the helmet, it's a penalty and it's dangerous.

crown of the helmet
 

the crown would be the highest vertical point so the backside of the crown is essentially the back of the helmet which you can not grab, unless you have Shaquille oNeal size hands, so I think this was a bad call as basically Cromartie's hand landed there on the way down to the ground.

Hey juggles can you explain that in Canadian?

You're not educated enough to read Canadian.

Touché!

And: ouch!

Let me get this straight. You're saying it's impossible for a player to stick his hand in this spot of the helmet and force the head into an unnatural motion?

I've got two words for you: Friction.

Two more words for you: summer camp.

I'm not arguing the rule on this, I don't know it. When it comes to football, I'm just a fan. :)

I'm only challenging fljet's assertion that "you can not grab" that portion of the helmet.

It was a joke, never mind.

Dangit! I hate it when jokes go over my head. Happens way too often.

RULE 9 / Section 1
Conduct of Players
and Others
Subject to the Rules

q. No player shall twist, turn or pull the face mask or any helmet opening
of an opponent. It is not a foul if the face mask or helmet opening is
not twisted, turned or pulled. When in question, it is a foul (A.R. 9-1-2-
XV)

PENALTY (a-q)—15 yards from the basic spot, or 15 yards from
the succeeding spot for dead-ball fouls. Automatic first
down for Team B fouls if the first down is not in conflict
with other rules (Exception: Penalties for offensive team
personal fouls behind the neutral zone are enforced from
the previous spot. Safety if the foul occurs behind Team A’s
goal line) [S7, S24, S34, S38, S39, S40, S41 or S46]. Flagrant
offenders shall be disqualified [S47].
For Team A fouls during free or scrimmage kick plays (field
goal plays exempted): Enforcement may be at the previous
spot or the spot where the subsequent dead ball belongs to
Team B (Rules 6-1-8 and 6-3-13).

thanks PA28
 

Thanks PA that answered the question no foul occurred based on your rule book excerpt