The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Football (https://forum.officiating.com/football/)
-   -   NFL Stripes (https://forum.officiating.com/football/47006-nfl-stripes.html)

Forksref Thu Aug 07, 2008 06:36pm
NFL Stripes
 
I see the NFL has put a stripe on the knickers of the officials, the result of which is to bring more attention to them. If this continues they will look more like a Canadian ref or a slow-pitch softball player! Yuck!

I believe that "less is more" when it comes to looking professional.

I hope this doesn't trickle down to FED ball, although at our state rules meeting they said that we can wear a black hard-shell pant when it is cold. That is just garbage. That has the look of a flag football ref. I've reffed in 9 degrees F and never got cold when I dressed in layers with long Johns.

I see the officials losing credibility by making the uniform look cheap. As officials, I don't think we need to get jump into the latest fad.

BktBallRef Thu Aug 07, 2008 06:53pm
Don't mince words. Tell us how you really feel, N.D. ;)

JRutledge Thu Aug 07, 2008 06:55pm
The change was not because of attention. The change was a result to have a uniform that could not be duplicated without their permission. For example the many beer commercials and other ads that essentially mocked the league's officials. It has nothing to do with professionalism for a league to choose what their officials should look like. The NFL has followed the NBA, FIBA and any other organization to not want to follow the traditional uniforms of all levels of sports officials. I might not personally like the entire look, but that is their right to change if they choose to. Just like the USFL used a different uniform (which involved shorts) the NFL can change too. If college wants to change their uniform that is their right to do so. I know if someone was going to pay me enough money to officiate those games, I would not care as long as I am on the field.

Peace

JugglingReferee Thu Aug 07, 2008 07:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The change was not because of attention. The change was a result to have a uniform that could not be duplicated without their permission. For example the many beer commercials and other ads that essentially mocked the league's officials. It has nothing to do with professionalism for a league to choose what their officials should look like. The NFL has followed the NBA, FIBA and any other organization to not want to follow the traditional uniforms of all levels of sports officials. I might not personally like the entire look, but that is their right to change if they choose to. Just like the USFL used a different uniform (which involved shorts) the NFL can change too. If college wants to change their uniform that is their right to do so. I know if someone was going to pay me enough money to officiate those games, I would not care as long as I am on the field.

Peace
Hmm... I heard that the NFL saw the new CFL knickers and showed immediate interest in following the CFL's lead.

JRutledge Thu Aug 07, 2008 07:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Hmm... I heard that the NFL saw the new CFL knickers and showed immediate interest in following the CFL's lead.
Actually, the NFL has had these pants for about 2 years now. They just did not make them required to wear. Madden Football was showing these pants on their officials since Madden 07 (which was in 2006). The NFL might have made them a requirement this season. I have seen the stripe before, but I cannot think of when they were wearing them during the regular season.

Peace

FTVMartin Thu Aug 07, 2008 08:55pm
I also noticed the stripe on Madden and thought it was a mistake. I personally like the black pants that they wear in cold weather.

w_sohl Fri Aug 08, 2008 02:59pm
Met a VERY good NFL official at a camp I went to recently...
 
the officials do not like the new uniforms....

IceGator8 Fri Aug 08, 2008 05:03pm
I think officiating will go towards the black pants. The black pants provide better layering options for all officials. For officials with large legs the black pants are far more comfortable and provide more options on cold days.

I talked to quite a few officials at my state meeting and most of them are starting to see the benefits of the black pant. In fact, most guys who do little league and high school (which is most of us) are going with shorts and black pants exclusively this season for the youth games.

OverAndBack Fri Aug 08, 2008 06:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The change was not because of attention. The change was a result to have a uniform that could not be duplicated without their permission. For example the many beer commercials and other ads that essentially mocked the league's officials.
I thought Pereira downplayed that aspect of it at the time, but I admit I can't find where he might have said that.

Regardless, they've taken a timeless, classic look and made it clownish (two years ago) and now even moreso (with the black stripe).

Speaking strictly as an NFL fan, I think it's cluttered and unnecessary and the design is uninspired and cartoonish.

Speaking as an official, when it comes right down to it, though, JRut, you're 100% correct - I'll wear whatever they want me to wear, especially if it's on a Sunday in the NFL.

JRutledge Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverAndBack
I thought Pereira downplayed that aspect of it at the time, but I admit I can't find where he might have said that.
That was the explanation that I gave you, came directly from a current NFL Official when he spoke to an association I belong to (I am also a member of the association that he belongs to as well). I am sure the NFL told the staff the reasoning for why the uniform change. I have no idea if that was the only reason, just the one I heard.

Peace

Texas Aggie Sat Aug 09, 2008 09:30am
Quote:
the NFL has had these pants for about 2 years now
This is correct. I saw these pants 2 years ago at a meeting and even commented on how awful they looked then!

Quote:
The change was a result to have a uniform that could not be duplicated without their permission.
First of all, its pretty difficult, if not impossible, to trademark a "look." You can easily trademark a logo or other "mark," but not a stripe running down your pants. Also, it isn't like its that difficult to copy a stripe. Finally, commercials have already copied the shirt -- at least somewhat. At a glance, its difficult to tell the difference between the actual shirt and one copied for a commercial.

I agree with the OP. Whether the intent is to draw attention to themselves, that's what they've done with the recent uniform changes. The shirts are no big deal, but the various pants and knickers changes are absurd. Go back to the white knickers and change the shirts as needed every few years.

Texas Aggie Sat Aug 09, 2008 09:37am
Quote:
For officials with large legs the black pants are far more comfortable and provide more options on cold days.
The actual pant is simply the Honigs elite knickers that are full length. There isn't anything more comfortable about it, except for the fact that you don't have to wear the traditional socks like we wear. The fit is essentially the same. About the only advantage on a cold day is being able to wear whatever black socks you want -- including wool socks if they work or are allowed. Other than that, you can layer just as easily with the knickers.

I personally, don't like the look of the pants in football, but I will concede the advantage of no striped socks (which I hate) and the pant does better with mud than the white knicks.

ajmc Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:54am
I also recall the suggestion that the NFL shirt was redesigned, and trademarked, partially because of commercials referencing officials. The NFL had zero control over the use of the traditional black and white striped shirt because it's a standard used in so many venues.

Creating a unique design, and trademarking it, gives the league control over which commercials may use the likeness. I presume the NFL requires stiff fees as well as editorial control over content and presentation for the use of their design in any commercial effort.

ASA/NYSSOBLUE Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:29am
the comments by writers about the officials coming in the same little car have started already....

Forksref Sat Aug 09, 2008 05:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The change was not because of attention. The change was a result to have a uniform that could not be duplicated without their permission. For example the many beer commercials and other ads that essentially mocked the league's officials. It has nothing to do with professionalism for a league to choose what their officials should look like. The NFL has followed the NBA, FIBA and any other organization to not want to follow the traditional uniforms of all levels of sports officials. I might not personally like the entire look, but that is their right to change if they choose to. Just like the USFL used a different uniform (which involved shorts) the NFL can change too. If college wants to change their uniform that is their right to do so. I know if someone was going to pay me enough money to officiate those games, I would not care as long as I am on the field.

Peace
I stated the RESULT was more attention, not the intent. As for the trademark, etc., anyone who makes a commerical using the traditional uniform is getting their point across. They don't need the latest NFL fad uniform to make their point. To the public, a referee is a referee.

The NFL, like the NCAA and others is very paranoid and controlling in what they do.

The only thing different in the uniform since I started in '75 is stripes on our socks and getting away from the strirrup sock. Tradition reinforces credibility. Look at teams like the Yankees and Celtics, two of the winningest franchises ever. Do they change uniforms every 2 years?

IceGator8 Sat Aug 09, 2008 07:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The actual pant is simply the Honigs elite knickers that are full length. There isn't anything more comfortable about it, except for the fact that you don't have to wear the traditional socks like we wear. The fit is essentially the same. About the only advantage on a cold day is being able to wear whatever black socks you want -- including wool socks if they work or are allowed. Other than that, you can layer just as easily with the knickers.

I personally, don't like the look of the pants in football, but I will concede the advantage of no striped socks (which I hate) and the pant does better with mud than the white knicks.
I was under the impression that the pants are made by Reebok and fit more like sweat pants rather than knickers. They certainly do not look like they fit like knickers in the legs.

Texas Aggie Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:03pm
The fit may be a bit different due to the way the pant is cut, but unless they've changed the pant from the one I saw, its simply a long Honigs Elite knicker.

JRutledge Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The fit may be a bit different due to the way the pant is cut, but unless they've changed the pant from the one I saw, its simply a long Honigs Elite knicker.
The pants might be modeled after another brand, but Reebok is responsible for all the new uniform designs.

Peace

IceGator8 Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The fit may be a bit different due to the way the pant is cut, but unless they've changed the pant from the one I saw, its simply a long Honigs Elite knicker.
I don't know if I buy this. I've seen the pant on some of the bigger officials and it seems like they have much more room than an elongated elite knicker would provide.

OverAndBack Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
That was the explanation that I gave you, came directly from a current NFL Official when he spoke to an association I belong to (I am also a member of the association that he belongs to as well). I am sure the NFL told the staff the reasoning for why the uniform change. I have no idea if that was the only reason, just the one I heard.
JR, you know I love ya, so don't get defensive. I have no doubt that many different people say many different things. I was just saying that I thought I remembered Pereira (which makes it "official" - moreso than a current NFL official saying it at an association meeting) downplaying that aspect of it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he never did downplay it or never did address it.

But it wouldn't be surprising if that was part of the reasoning. It also wouldn't be surprising if the NFL wanted to "officially" give the impression that it was above such mundane considerations, and that the timing of the redesign, right after a major beer company's season-long campaign featuring guys in traditional stripes, was a complete coincidence.

BTW, say hey to everybody in FVFO for me. Miss 'em. It's hot here.

Rick KY Mon Aug 11, 2008 02:08pm
When the NFL updated their officials uniforms they said it was because it had been so long since they updated them, and they wanted to use the more technically modern fabrics available. Since they have an exclusive contract with Reebok, they redesigned the official uniform also.

Like...
pullover all weather shirt
black pants, but lose the wide white stripe

Dislike...
black stripe on white knickers

Suggest...
piping on the pants leg or knickers that matches the piping on hats would not be bad.

OverAndBack Mon Aug 11, 2008 02:52pm
I'm sorry, what was wrong with this look again?

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76989...4831B75F48EF45

JRutledge Mon Aug 11, 2008 03:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverAndBack
JR, you know I love ya, so don't get defensive. I have no doubt that many different people say many different things. I was just saying that I thought I remembered Pereira (which makes it "official" - moreso than a current NFL official saying it at an association meeting) downplaying that aspect of it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he never did downplay it or never did address it.
I really do not even know what you are disagreeing with. And personally I do not see this as a major issue. I just know what was told to someone and what they repeated. It does not mean much to me why or how this uniform came about. I am sure the NFL took many different positions on this because they did get some crap about these uniforms and especially from the officiating community.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OverAndBack
But it wouldn't be surprising if that was part of the reasoning. It also wouldn't be surprising if the NFL wanted to "officially" give the impression that it was above such mundane considerations, and that the timing of the redesign, right after a major beer company's season-long campaign featuring guys in traditional stripes, was a complete coincidence.
Once again, I was just repeating what was told to a room full of people. That does not mean that was the actual reason or that there was not more behind the story. I can tell you I feel the NFL does not care what we think though. And even if the officials do not like it, I do not know anyone retiring as a result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverAndBack
BTW, say hey to everybody in FVFO for me. Miss 'em. It's hot here.
We have a meeting tonight. I will do my best to get that message out. Hope things are going well where you are at.

Peace

OverAndBack Tue Aug 12, 2008 01:57pm
I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, Jeff. I was just asking the question.

This is why you're so beloved here, my man. Even when someone loves ya, you gotta be right all the time. :)

JRutledge Tue Aug 12, 2008 04:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverAndBack
I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, Jeff. I was just asking the question.

This is why you're so beloved here, my man. Even when someone loves ya, you gotta be right all the time. :)
I at a loss for why what this conversation has to do with being right or wrong. We are sharing opinions and those opinions have different perspectives. This is a discussion board right? It is not like we are talking about how to settle the energy crisis. We are talking about a uniforms in a league that most of us will never get the opportunity to ever work. There are a billion people in China that do not care right now. I know beyond the time I am taking to comment on this thread, I personally have more things I am concerned with than what some officials in a league I will likely never work wear. I just know if I were to work it, I would not be complaining. ;)

Peace

Adam Tue Aug 12, 2008 05:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
First of all, its pretty difficult, if not impossible, to trademark a "look."
I don't know, Harley-Davidson trademarked the sound of their motorcycles.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1