Holiday Bowl Texas
 

I bet they had to pull the rule book out for this one. Arizona St. QB throws a backward lateral and a Texas trainer May or May not have touched a live ball on the field of play, but there was a official just yards away from the play and did not call anything. But the play review offical must have seen somthing. Not sure that if is a good place for the review. Next they will have the replay offical calling Holding... !!!!!!!!!

must be a texas fan....

as a sooner fan i dont think that the sideline personell touched the ball.

would be nice to see the play from the reverse angle from the ASU sideline camera but apparently that camera man was focusing on something else

I thought Replay was supposed to make it so they got the call right. That was pathetic. Then the R could not enforce it.

There is no way in hell that kid touched that ball. The L was right there and made no call. That should tell you something.

I never heard what conference the clown R was were from but likely another instance where lesser conference officals can't handle big time football.

Pathetic.

Uhhhhh. he is from the SEC And you might want to know there are quite a few guys who disagree with your conclusion on the call Are you saying nobody interefered with live ball action?

Try the SEC

9.2.b.1 No coaches entering field of play

9.1.4.a No subs entering during play

4.1.3.k Touching anything other than player of official


Looks like they got it correct.

Question--What if the person who touched the ball had been a neutral person on the sideline such as a police officer, photographer, sideline reporter, etc.?

I make my living reading people and am pretty good at it. From every view I had, he did not touch the ball, but his reaction after the penalty was called told me he did. His reactions were not those of a person who is unjustly accused.

Replay question - Is it possible the replay official had a view we did not get?

It looked as if he may have touched the ball with his thumb, and if so, it was the right call. There were many guys on the field as the ball bounced towards the sideline and the penalty was warranted, and properly enforced. Downfield 5 yards more another coach was 3-4 yards on the field also.

I predict POEs for '08:
Helmet to helmet hits.
Pants that actually are long enough to cover the knees.
Sideline control.

And, maybe, adoption of the new basketball rule for the coaches to shut up.


Also, the crew gave UT a sideline warning in the fourth quarter. Mack-baby couldn't believe it. But if it ain't enforced in the Big 12 during the season, the SEC boys get to handle it.

Neutral Fan in Attendance
 

This has to be the most bizarre sequence of events in a football game that I have ever witnessed. From my POV (4th level, in End Zone) it sure looked like the guy on the sideline interfered or touched the ball, ever so briefly. With access to a monitor with the ESPN feed during the review process, it was difficult to tell. But, they certainly took long enough with the review that I'd like to think that it the proper call was made.

From a non-official's perspective, it seems to me that maybe the R might have made the UT sideline guy think the ball was dead because he threw his flag instead of the beanbag (of course, the R then announced that there could be no IG penalty on a backwards pass, which makes me think that he initially was going to call an incompletion and a foul for IG, then realized his mistake). Then, the whole enforcement issue got to be somewhat tedious (it was hard to hear the R's microphone explanations tonight). This play will certainly make all the highlight reels for awhile though.

As an aside, during the second quarter, the R and the TV Timeout guy started bickering with each other during stoppages in play after changes of possession. Twice the TV guy was giving the "keep it going" signal and the R was giving him the arms out/palms up, "WTF?" look and gesture. On the second time, the R ran all the way down to my end where the TV guy was and they had a very animated conversation, the R was definitely unhappy with something having to do with not taking the TV timeouts. Very strange.

Were they correct in making that call from the booth? Can that actually be reviewed.

Did the referee throw a flag for intentional grounding? Did any official on the field throw a sideline interference penalty on that play?

This whole thing confused me, and without tivo I'm going crazy trying to find the exact sequence of events.

Did they enforce that penalty from the previous spot, or the succeeding spot?

The fact that the asshat on the sideline did or didn't touch the ball is irrelevant. They clearly interfered with a live ball by just having so many people on the sideline.

Hell, the following play, Texas' defensive coordinator, Duane Akina, was on the field inside the 20 barking at the referee. I'm a Texas fan and was irritated that the white hat didn't flag him for another unsportsmanlike.

We had a very brief thread on this over on the basketball forum. Someone posted the following and I was interested in your take. I do NOT know the football rules. When it comes to that sport, I'm just a fan (and not of either team that was involved in this game).

The play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqRgzjl2m8

Penalty was enforced from previous spot. Appears crew got 2 different fouls and penalties confused and the enforcement reflected a "blend", i.e. 1 certain foul but with the enforcement that is mandated for the other foul.

If the determination was that the ball or other players were interfered with, then the R can enforce any penalty he deems equitable. If he thinks it is equitable to enforce from prev spot. 1/2 the distance, but no replay of down, so be it. I do not think that is what he was doing though.

The sidelines are enforced in the Big XII. There, and in all other major conferences, the officials are working so wide it forces the teams to comply. The SEC does not work wide and this may result in teams inching further farther than they should be.

As for your POE's, all 3 are already there.

According to internet sources, the "touchee" was Mack Brown's step-son..
http://thesportingorange.blogspot.co...pace-page.html

actually no
 

he is a pretty good official, when he is a fan he is an OSU Cowboy fan...

Here is what I dont understand.....

Can you enforce a penalty BASED on a replay?????? I didn't think you could.

And why can't you have an IG on a backwards passs? isn't IG IG?

I dont' work in a conference with IR so can't get too involved there. IG on a backwards pass is not illegal because......
A) is it not illegal to throw a backwards pass out of bounds unless it is to save time.
B) if it doesn't get out of bounds it is a live ball and anyone can recover and advance. So there is no advantage to throwing a backwards pass to save yardage, because if no one recovers it it is awarded to the team last in possesion at the dead ball spot.

Fouls can be called after an IR review has provided new "facts" to the R.

IG specifically applies to forward passes. You can have an illegal backward pass, i.e. when thrown deliberately OOB to conserve time, but that is not IG.

I can understand the views on here that it was probably interference by the sideline but then why did the ref state the penalty on the play was for the sideline personel TOUCHING the ball!?!?!?:eek: :eek:

Where i think most of us agree that it was inconclusive whether the ball was touched or not.

I thnk it would be fairer to say, SOME of you thnk it was inconclusive.

The "touchee" was the ball. The (possible/alleged/disputed/...) "toucher" was Mack Brown's step-son.

Under what NCAA provision was that play reviewable?

12-3-2-g and 12-3-3-j

So it's possible next year we could see a review after every play just to make sure there wasn't a penalty on the play? I mean, where will this stop?

Whether he touched the ball or not, the Texas sideline should have been flagged. I don't think you can let the wing official off the hook on this one for that reason. At the start of the game, this should have been addressed and, if necessary addressed again soon thereafter.

This is a sideline control issue more than whether the ball was touched or not.

The first is not applicable since there was no dispute that the ball was a backward pass.

The second is a gross misuse of instant replay since the officials on the field made no call on any such infraction.

Using instant replay to go on a fishing expedition is an insult to the fans,coaches and players.

Instant replay is ruining the game and is a travesty.

How can you say there was no dispute, the R flagged it initially as IG? Are you even a football official?

The flag was picked up.

And maybe they could get the e-flat trumpet in the band for being off key?

Yes it was and if you are watching the Liberty Bowl you saw IR used to review a fwd pass or not situation there also. In the UT game, IR could have chosen to review the play to see if it may have been a fwd pass or not.Just wondereing how it is that you seem to know so much about what IR is or is not permitted to address?

I don't want instant replay used to look for fouls but in this particular case a coach or team attendant or glorified stepson or whatever he is was on the field and probably (or maybe didn't) touch the ball! You have a significant problem when that happens.

Someone said something about a blended foul and it seems to me that's what happened. I have two questions:

1. Why wasn't this illegal participation instead of a USC?

2. If this was an USC, why didn't TX keep the ball? Isn't an USC a succeeding spot foul?

The OP was about the Holiday Bowl. The flag was picked up so any IR reference to that is irrelevant.

The replay was nothing more than a fishing expedition and a travesty of the game.

Any official who has to put up with this crap ought to get hazard pay.

Mike, he's one of those guys who's only purpose here is to stir up $hit about officials. Look at his posts. That's all he does.

No. I am here to learn about the rules and why, in some cases, they are ignored.

You are not going to learn enough by hanging out on an internet discssion board to ever appease you or to make you truly understand the rules and how the game is officiated. This is arguably the most complex sport to officiate in the world and anyone who tries to read the rulebook as back and whiyte is going to have serious problems. Why not join up with your local football officials and REALLY try to learn the game?

I don't, for a second, denigrate the amount of work and study needed to be a good football official. ( I would argue that the baseball rule book is much more difficult to master, but that is another matter)

I think today's college and pro officials are the best the game has ever produced. I just wish the administrators would let the game be in the hands of the officials, not the TV cameras.

Thanks
 

Thanks ... GO BIG 12:)