Playoffs
 

I'm in a quandry. maybe you can help me out. I just finished my 3rd year. I think I'm beginning to be a good referee. I do other sports but find football the hardest to officiate so I work hard at it and feel I've progressed. I was passed over for playoff assignments this year and see others who received assignments, in my opinion of course, not as good an official as I think I have become. There is certainly a 'good 'ole boy' network who get all the top games.

My question to you is, how long does it normally take to become good enough for the playoffs. I understand it's probably different in different regions, etc. I'm a little discouraged and wonder if maybe I'm being too impatient. I would love to hear your experiences.

Your other questions aside does your state or association, or whoever assigns the playoffs, have a requirement that you have to have worked a minimum number of years before you can be eligible for playoffs?

No, not for local playoffs. They do for State, of course.

Are you saying there were officials with the same limited amount of experience as you who got playoff games?


You are right about the regional deal...there are places in Texas where you would not even see a regular season varsity game until after 3 or more years, much less a playoff game

You probably are being a bit impatient, but again, it's region dependent.

I look at playoffs as gravy. In Wisconsin, 7 crews will work a state final. No other crew works more than 2 playoff games. Over 80% of crews that work get one game.

I've stopped getting annoyed over 1 game. We get one, best we can hope for is two. Work hard during the season and not worry what others (coaches ratings, especially) think.

First piece of advice...read my signature line.....

I am not a football official, but have officiated other sports for a number of years. I started out in basketball and your post mirrors what I was thinking after about three years as a basketball official...

"Why aren't I moving up?"

"I'm a better official than most of the guys doing varsity ball..."

"I work hard and listen to all my evaluators and try to do what they say..."

"The good-ole-boy network is keeping me down...."

The best advice that I heard (but did not listen to) at that time was; Work to be the best official you can be. Take your satisfaction from that...if you are good enough, the better assignments and playoff games will follow.

If you gripe about your assignments or other officials, it gets back to assignors and commissioners. That can block your climb up the officiating ladder faster than just about anything else.

Keep working to become a better official, don't ever think you have "arrived", and keep your mouth shut....it will all work out.

Thanks, Andy and everyone else. What I got out of this is keep working to be the best you can and let the chips fall where they may.

Exactly. It's not always a fair system.

But I've been doing this for four years and I feel I've improved but I know I have a ton more to learn and more reps to get. If I get to do varsity next season, great. But I'm not expecting even that. Aiming? Sure. I aim to do my next game as well as I can.

But I learned long ago that you can't worry about what other people get that you don't get. Life isn't fair. Just do your best and it'll all work out.

Come to Indiana where they have an "all-in" playoff system where every team makes the playoffs. There were 161 crews that applied for the playoffs and about 150 first round games. If you are not working in they playoffs you definitely have issues.

Here the big hurdle is making it to round 2 or round 3 (of 6 rounds). Only 80 crews make the second round and 40 crews make the third round. To get that far takes a very high assessment which is almost entirely a coach's vote. That makes the good ol' boy network alive and well but it's not networking with other officials but how many coaches you know. This comes from:

1. Working for 30 years
2. Working in education so you know a lot of coaches through other avenues
3. Working other sports (especially basketball) so you get to know more ADs who have a big influence in the coach's vote

I've also learned this year living in a smaller community may help because again, you get to know coaches in your area through other means (kids in school, church, civic organizations). That is much harder in Indianapolis.

Please don't take this as whining. It is what it is and I'm happy to have worked 2 rounds most years I've been officiating (we almost made it to round 3 this year). I agree with other comments here that you do the best you can and rewards will follow.

You answered you own question "I think I'm beginning to be a good referee".

The key word is beginning. To be brutally frank, a 3rd year official has no business working a playoff game.

It takes at least 5 years to be a competent official. Here, no 3rd year official got a playoff game. Maybe their 4th year.

Yes, you are being way too impatient.

In our CIF Section, there is no Good Ol' Boy network. The playoff games are assigned by ratings. This year we have many guys working thier first CIF Championship game because they deserve it not because who they are.

I work in Texas in one of the larger chapters in the state. We don't have specific experience requirements per se (though we probably should). I was assigned a playoff game this year -- in my 3rd year -- but while not unprecedented, its probably a rarity. I was sort of cautiously optimistic that I'd get one (based on a couple of things I won't go into here, but not political reasons), but had I not gotten one, I'd only have been mildly disappointed. The fact is that I had a good year with or without one.

However, there's a couple of things that might be unique to me:

1. Even though it was only my third year of football, I've officiated since 1988. While there is always room for improvement, I am fairly experienced in dealing with coaches.

2. Prior to working even a scrimmage, I sat and listened at 2 on field clinics, plus the state meeting, plus our chapter's training program. I have taken advantage of every training opportunity I could.

3. I have diligently attended meetings in 3 years and also worked a fairly decent number of games. I've clocked about 150 games at all levels.

4. I take care of business at my games, especially as a white hat. I know many guys say this but many fewer than that actually do it.

There are other guys with more camps, more training sessions, or more games worked in the same period of time in our chapter, but there isn't anyone with all the numbers I have. The fact is that I've put in the work and its been noticed. I will concede there has been some "right place right time" associated with that. I've also been flexible to accept VERY last minute assignments when called -- I'm talking about "game starts in less than an hour and you are an hour and a half away, but can you make it by start time..." type stuff.

Incidentally, the game I got wasn't EXACTLY the 5A (largest public school classification) playoffs.

Who gets playoff games depends upon location and to be honest in some politics is involved.

The best advice I ever heard came from an NFL supervisor who said "make every game your best game because you never know who is watching."

It is sad that people think like this. You are putting way to much emphasis on years worked. What really matters is how good someone is. It is very possible that a third year official has had lots of good training and has developed his skills very well. Each official/crew should be evaluated and judged with the best working the playoff games. To say that no third year official has no business working a playoff game is flat out wrong.

My first commish once said he feared officials with 3 to 5 years experience because, "they think they know everything, but actually know just enough to get themselves into trouble, and not enough to get themselves out of it."

This quote is beautiful and can be applied across all sports........

Shoot, I think it takes a year just to figure out where to stand and how to blow your whistle. Second year you might start to get a clue about all the rules and mechanics. Third year you should be starting to get a good sense of judgment and deportment.

As a general rule, I completely agree with the notion that if you've not done this for five years, you'd almost have to be a mutant to be good enough to deserve to work a playoff game that isn't in a small state.

Not saying it can't happen. But no matter how good you think you are after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 10 years, you can be better, and there are still lots of guys better than you.

It seems to me that a lot of guys forget how rough they were when they started out and they seem to think they've always been as good as they are now.

There's no question you CAN be better at any level of experience, but saying 1 year or 50 years rings hollow to me. How many games did you work in each year? How many HS or varsity games, perhaps college games, did you work? How many scrimmages, spring games, camps, etc.? Sometimes the light just comes on earlier than it does for others, and as I've alluded to, previous and additional officiating experience helps tremendously.

We have guys in my chapter that work close to 80 subvarsity games a year. The work every night, Monday through Thursday, most weeks of the season. We have 11 full weeks, plus partial weeks like this year where I had a JV game for 2 private schools the week before what we call zero week. Jr. High games don't start in zero week and they usually end a week before the high school season ends, so its tough to work 11 or even 10 full weeks of football. But there are sub varsity Friday and Saturday games in some instances and guys that beat the bushes work a lot. None of this even gets into the pee-wee realm. Add that, and some guys work over 120 a year.

From what I've heard on this board, some guys talk about 25 games a year as a full season. Frankly, I worked about 45 Varsity and subvarsity games this year (no peewee) and I feel like I had a fairly light schedule. So for you guys that count 25-35 games as a year, what do you count 80+ as?

That's why you can't have hard and fast 5 year rules. On the other hand, our chapter did have some problems with crews of lesser experienced officials in some of the higher level playoff games. I think in those situations, the big stadiums and crowds (10-15K) might have gotten to them. I personally felt comfortable (except for the weather) in my playoff game this year. Would I have felt the same in front of 10K? I can't say, but things would have been different. THAT is probably the discussion that we need to have.

That is so true.

I've thought about this topic some the last few days. My experiences are much like the first posters. When I moved to Missouri, I had 4 years of underclass experience with a few varisty games mixed in. I got picked up by an experienced crew, had a pretty good season, and got a playoff game. I don't think we were suppose to get one but we did a good enough job in the regular season to warrant one. Same thing next year, had a good year and got another playoff game, this time a bigger, more important game. The third year, had a good regular season schedule and got the biggest playoff game of the area. This was in my third year as a registered official in the state. Some may frown on this but the guys I worked with had years of experience, state championships under their belts, and two worked D2 college ball. We were a pretty good crew. To top it off, the next week we got another playoff game that year, a semifinal game in the second biggest class. So we had a quarterfinal in the largest class, and a semi in the second largest. My confidence was sky high.

All that came crashing down the next two years. Like the quote above said, you think you know everything at that stage of your career. The next two seasons I didn't get a playoff game because the rating I received from coaches was too poor. In fact, the first year our crew got a playoff game but I was replaced. In MO, we get ratings from coaches and that's a big part in our selection process. So I worked harder, learned the rules better, lost some weight, and did my best to get better with each game. This season our crew worked a state championship game.

I pass this along to reinforce what many have said here. Work hard, improve each week, and don't get discouraged. Many great officials have been burned by envy, jealousy, and being over-zealous. Don't trash or badmouth those that get the games you "think" you should be working. Work harder so you are better prepared for when you get those assignments.

Lastly, there is something to be said for the "old boy network" but it goes both ways. It can help you, but it can also hinder you. Don't run your mouth about so-and-so because it can hold you back because word gets around. On the other hand you want to make sure you are making positive connections with those that can help you learn and advance. An article written by John Bible in Referee magazine last year said that he felt no official is ready to work college ball until they get 10 varsity seasons under their belt. A little harsh maybe, but his point is valid. In fact, I read this article from time to time to remind myself not to get in too big of a hurry. Don't get in a hurry to advance/get the good games. One mistake can cost you.

I still just don't think you can microwave your officiating career.

I mean, I know just from my experience that I'm considered a wuss because I felt that doing 22 or 25 games two seasons ago was a lot for me. But based on the time I had to devote to it and the other things in my life, that was it for me. That was all I could do.

Then I have the notion (which I expressed at the time), that while I think you can do 85 games a year (of course you can), can you really do justice to 85 games a year? Is it physically possible to be up for this 85 times a fall if you do other things? Are you getting 85 games worth of benefit out of your 85 games? Or is it just slogging through them?

If I took a brand-new, never-officiated before guy and gave him (unrealistically), 80 games his first year, would that make him 4 times better than someone who did 20 games? Would he necessarily be four times further along? I know there's no substitute for reps and making mistakes and learning from them, but is it realistic to say that without sufficient time to reflect and gather feedback, to let situations sit in your mind, to take in the counsel of others and to do the educational components necessary to really improve, that there aren't diminishing returns here? That after the 40th or 50th game, you're not getting that much more out of it in that particular season?

I don't know. That's just my theory. I think that you can't make yourself into a fourth-year official simply by doing four years' worth of games (for some guys) in one fall any more than you can make yourself a college senior by taking 80 hours your freshman year. You need to grow (up and older), you need to reflect, you need to take it in and process it, and I think some of that time is taken up just by driving from one field to another, washing your uniform for the fifth time that week or any of the other procedural things that just....take....time.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I disagree with this statement only because all officials do not have the same level of competency. I agree that it takes years to be a better official, but some people get it better than others. Some people played the game or coached the game for years and then they come to officiate when they already have some clues as to what they would need to do. As compared to someone that never played in HS let alone in the back yard and wants to become an official in that particular sport. And football is also is such a positional sport for an official that you might be exceptional at one position and terrible at another.

Peace

Years 1 and 2 of your system can be completly skipped if one goes through the proper training. Year 3 can also be skipped, either by the proper training or by using experience gained in officiating other sports.

Look at baseball. The first baseball game that one ever officiated could be in a short season league at the affiliated Minor League level. That is possible because those officials go through the proper training beforehand. Saying that someone needs to work X number of years to reach Y skill level is not correct.

Wow. Okay.

Am I the only one who's not completely sold on that?

Is that true? Can someone really work in the NY-P League having never officiated baseball before?

Usually. There are exceptions to every rule.

I still think you're a mutant if you can do this and do it well right off the bat, no matter how much "training" you have. But I may be the only one who feels that way.

It is true someone can work Minor League ball and not ever work a game. The reason is because there are pro schools that give umpires an ennormous amount of training. And there are people that go to these pro-schools and have never worked a single game of baseball before that time. In many cases people have been picked up with very limited experience before they attended pro-school.


The point that I am making is that putting arbitrary numbers is not a very good judge of when someone is competent. Even after 5 years there are officials that do not get it and seem to never will. My crew chief is a former Division 1 Nose Tackle, he is a great umpire because he gets what is going on at that point of the game and how to call line blocking almost like no other official I know. His football experience makes him a lot better than someone that has been working 20 more years than my crew chief. Move him to another position and his level of ability does change and even his understanding of the other aspects of the game. I know I had to work really hard to become a decent back judge in the past few years because I was much better and more comfortable as a wing and Referee where I spent more time.

Now there might be rules that allow for eligibility for post season games and that is fine with me. But to say what someone can or cannot do only bases on how many years they have been working is a very good gauge. And I know training can speed up that process and even the number of games you work. You cannot judge that by how many years someone has worked.

Peace

You really think it takes one year to learn where to stand? Assuming that the official only works one position there are only maybe 5 places he needs to learn. There are 2 positions for free kicks, one normal position and possibly another position if an onside kick is expected. Then there are scrimmage downs. One position for punts, one for field goals, and another for normal scrimmage downs. Does it really take a year to learn that?

Year two is learning the rules and mechanics. Anyone can learn the rules. It doesn't take two years to learn the rules. With proper studying it can take way less. People get out of it what they put into it, some people are diligent studiers of the rules. Some people are very good at remembering what they read. Some people participate in internet discussion forums. They are many factors which go into learning the rules therefore one cannot say that it takes X number of years to learn the rules.

The same goes for mechanics. Mechanics are learned by studying them and the practicing them on the field. This can be done outside of games.

Year three was judgment and deportment. This also can be taught. Learning what/how/when to look for greatly increases judgment. Not too long ago RichMSN posted that he had brought a first year official on to his crew and he work varsity games right from the start. That guy was a good official in other sports and it was easy to transfer over to football.

Yes, that is correct. You could call up your nephew who has never officiated anything in his life and ask him if he wanted to work Minor League Baseball. If he said yes you could send him to school and he could be out on the field working in a short season A and/or rookie league this Summer. They go though long and intense training which teaches them everything they need to know to start officiating professional baseball. If a first year baseball official can work MiLB, why would anyone think that a third year football official could never be good enough to work a HS playoff game?

I don't think this is a problem for guys that want to do it. I personally don't, but I know guys that do want to work every single night and then are pissed when the season is over. I don't think I slogged in any of my 45 or so games this year or any of my 60 games last year. Adding 20-25 more wouldn't have been a problem for me if I had the kind of job that would allow it and wanted to do it. Yeah, in late August or early September, the 4th quarter of a second JV game can be rough since its humid as hell, my legs aren't quite in midseason form, and I'm so hungry, I start wondering if there are real beans in my bean bag. But I get through OK, and the younger guys do so without much thought.

My point was that experience, in football, is all about snaps. I've averaged 50 games a year for the three years I've worked. Is that 3 years the same as a guy who's done 30 games per year?

Actually it is not that simple. Yes it may be helpful to be on the field more but it is possible for a guy to do what is called "Work 1 game 50 times" instead of "50 games:. The point being, if you are doing the same thing over and over but are doing it wrong, then how much experience do you really have. Not saying you fit that category, just saying it is not a simple matter of "I have worked 50 games a year". I know some guys in a Chapter I am familiar with who have been at this for over 20 years and who are in it for the money. They work as many nights a week as they can and do youth league stuff on the weekends. They are doing over 100 games a season. But, they are some of the worst officials possible.

If you are doing games without "adult supervision" (more experienced and competent officials) working with you, I really question the value of the experience. (And yes, if you are working with the guys I mentioned at the start of this post, I definitely question the value of THOSE games)

Every state is different, but here is a general outline of how playoffs are assigned here in KY. Most new officials work regular season varsity games in their 2nd or 3rd year.

In order to qualify for playoff assingments, officials must:
1. Achieve a minimum score on the annual test of 80%
2. Attend minimum number of training meetings (6 out of 9)
3. Attend state rules clinic annually
4. Have a state rating above the minimum after round 1
1 - Registered (all new officials)
2 - Approved (min 3 seasons, includes min test score requirement)
3 - Certified (min 5 years and all above requirements)
5. Register with both state and local assocication on time, and pay fees on time. Late registration or late payment of fees will DQ you from playoff games.

Local assignor assigns first 4 rounds after the state tells him which games he should assign. For 5th and final round the state asks each assignor to provide a list of potential final candidate officials. The state assigns final round from that list.

Local association politics still plays a part in which qualified officials get a game, or which game they may get. It also plays a role in who is on the short list for a final. I suspect politics in our association will always play a role.

Like I said, usually. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. There are people who "get it" right away, and I'm sure we've all worked with guys with more longevity who either (a) don't get it or ( b ) had it and lost it a while back.

The guy who's done it for 35 years isn't necessarily better than the guy who's done it for 3. I'm talking general.

And I realize some here are Supermen who got it from day one and are married to Morgan Fairchild (who they've seen naked) and can divide by zero and who scare Chuck Norris - I don't know about those guys, but I know that my first year, my head was on a swivel and I just tried to survive it.

If you can pop out of a classroom or a clinic or a series of them ready to do varsity games, God love ya. If you can do playoff games by your third year, terrific. We need more quality officials in all sports at all levels.

I just don't think that's the norm, and I don't believe I ever will.

When I first got into this, I was at a clinic and someone asked the clinician in our group (a very, very good official who I respect and who was one of the guys whose counsel I always sought - JRut, you know the guy, is in FVFO) how long it took him before he felt he had a good handle on the rules and he said it was his fourth year.

Now, y'all don't know this guy, but let me tell you - it didn't take him four years because he's dumb or because he didn't work at it. He's very good at this and very dedicated to constantly learning and improving. But it struck me at the time that this wasn't an overnight process, and I still believe it.

Someone said earlier "does it take a year to learn where to stand?"

Of course not, that takes about 5 minutes of reading your mechanics manual. :rolleyes:

What takes a year or more to learn is movement (and I would suggest a better measure would be eg. 100 games). I train rookies in my area of the UK and I like to think I do a reasonable job in preparing them before they go out on the field and buddying them during their first few games. But there is no substitute for having worked 10,000 snaps :).
That should provide you with enough of those odd ball plays :eek: which teach you about when to stand still, when to move, how to move, where to move to, how fast to move there and where you should be looking during all of this....

I agree with you 100%, as I've said this exact thing on job interviews where I may not have had the years of experience that other applicants had, but wanted the job. In at least one case, the manager told me he'd never thought of it that way.

But this is just as true of the 5 year official as it is of the 3 year official. My point was that, everything else being equal, the 150 game 3rd year is a bit beyond (or at the very least, close enough to) the 100 game 5 year. Besides, in our chapter, most Thursday night (i.e. frosh/JV) crews include at least 1, and probably 2, 10+ year official. To the extent that they offer any critique, the lesser experienced officials won't be constantly doing it wrong, unless they either don't comprehend or don't care. If that's the case, they won't work on Friday nights and certainly won't get a playoff game.

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Does this official deserve a playoff game ?

Depends how he handled this situation? Do you know?

This photo was in the local newpaper. The photographer could have taken pic's like this all night. On an earlier thread I talked about PA having no evaluation systems in place. This is an example. The coach in the picture belongs to a team that has influence with officials assignments. If the official gives the warning, and later flags the infraction, his chance of working diminishes. If we had meaningful evaluations, it would give officials some incentive to make these calls. The official in the pic probably would act accordingly in most of his games. Ignoring stuff like this in order to get assingments can only lead to poor officiating.

Our coaches are even worse although they are getting better. They usually aren't on the field like this when the wing official is near the coach's box. It's usually a coach who is 20 yards downfield from the LOS. At least this coach has one foot in the coach's box. I still have coaches who step out 3-4 yards to make their play and don't get back all the way.

We also have coaches exclusively doing our evaluations so this kind of thing happens. The coaches have gotten better the past couple years so there's hope yet.

I would be tempted to call this pass incomplete and then tell the coach I couldn't see becuase he was in the way. Maybe then he would get it.

I guess I'm coming into this late, but I have a little story that relates to this.

I started officiating a number of years ago back in grade 10. In my second year, I worked all though the playoffs and did the Division 2 city final. The next year, I did the division 1 final. Over the summer, for our provincial summer league that year, I did a final, as well as the under 17 national championship.

Then I moved away to college, joined a new association and haven't seen a playoff game in the past 3 years, except this year, where I didn't work any playoffs but my home association assigned me the provincial bowl game.

The point of the story is, I guess that different places do things differently. While you might be ready for the final, or the playoff game, there might be other guys ahead of you. But don't let it discourage you. I've done a few big games now, so I don't do it to get the playoff assignments, I do because I love it. I have fun doing it, and hopefully I'll be able to move up to that next level within the next couple of years.