Incomplete pass following muffed punt?

[breynolds]

Play: 4th and 10 from K's 35 yard line. K kicks a high, short punt that R muffs at K's 45 yard line. The ball rebounds behind the neutral zone where K recovers the ball and begins to advance. During the advance he throws an incomplete forward pass from behind the neutral zone.

Ignore for the moment the likelihood that A(K) will have one or probably more ineligible linemen downfield. Which team will be awarded a new series? Where is the succeeding spot? (NFHS code)

I am interested to hear your thoughts. Although this play is highly unusual, I think it would be a good addition to case book play 5.1.3 Situation C.

[wisref2]

Since R touched the ball beyond the neutral zone, the team in possession at the end of the down gets a new series. K was the team in possession at the end of the down, so they get the new series - first and 10 from the previous spot.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: wisref is also a "wise ref."

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by wisref2

Since R touched the ball beyond the neutral zone, the team in possession at the end of the down gets a new series. K was the team in possession at the end of the down, so they get the new series - first and 10 from the previous spot.

So in that original play, is the forward pass legally thrown??

If completed (and once again, barring ineligibles down field), would K get a first down even if they don't reach the line to gain?

Or would this play even happen since you can't advance a muff?

Thanks

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by bossman72

So in that original play, is the forward pass legally thrown??

If completed (and once again, barring ineligibles down field), would K get a first down even if they don't reach the line to gain?

Or would this play even happen since you can't advance a muff?

Thanks

Yes, it's legally thrown

Completion or incompletion of the pass is irrelevent. Since R touched the kick beyond the LOS, it's going to be a new series for whoever is in possession at the end of the down.

K can advance the muffed kick as long as it is from behind the LOS.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: wisref is also a "wise ref."

Bob: you're very punny.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Am I correct in stating that if the play occured under NCAA Rules, that the ball would be dead as soon as A recovered it and A's 1st + 10 from there ?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

Am I correct in stating that if the play occured under NCAA Rules, that the ball would be dead as soon as A recovered it and A's 1st + 10 from there ?

REPLY: Correct.

[Reffin' Sgt]

Originally Posted by breynolds

Play: 4th and 10 from K's 35 yard line. K kicks a high, short punt that R muffs at K's 45 yard line. The ball rebounds behind the neutral zone where K recovers the ball and begins to advance. During the advance he throws an incomplete forward pass from behind the neutral zone.

Ignore for the moment the likelihood that A(K) will have one or probably more ineligible linemen downfield. Which team will be awarded a new series? Where is the succeeding spot? (NFHS code)

I am interested to hear your thoughts. Although this play is highly unusual, I think it would be a good addition to case book play 5.1.3 Situation C.

I've been in basketball mode for a few weeks now and put the FB rule book away, but if I remember correctly you can't throw a pass on a down in which there is a change of possession. Because of the muff by R and the subsequent recovery by K, K will be given a new series of downs. K has thrown an illegal forward pass and is penalized from the spot of the throw, 1 and 10.

DH

[ljudge]

Originally Posted by Reffin' Sgt

I've been in basketball mode for a few weeks now and put the FB rule book away, but if I remember correctly you can't throw a pass on a down in which there is a change of possession. Because of the muff by R and the subsequent recovery by K, K will be given a new series of downs. K has thrown an illegal forward pass and is penalized from the spot of the throw, 1 and 10.

DH

There was no change of possession. R MUFFED the ball, they never caught or recovered the ball. The ball is always in possession of a team and that is team K so a pass would be legal (unless it's made from beyond the NZ or someone is illegally downfield).