Indy/SD
 

Ouch...IW on a big play...

I don't know about that one, Tanner.

When the IW went, where were the SD players? Could you say for certain that NO SD players stopped playing because of the IW, and that the IND player still broke tackles and made it as far as he would have.

In fact, the possibility exists that the IND player may have ben tackled (by SD player(s) that gave up when the IW went) before the 20, in which case the IW actually helped IND.

What do you mean JR? In the NFL even if the players stop for a very short amount of time, the NFL is so fast, the IW is a major issue here...this should never, never, never happened in the NFL...YIKES!

Great point. But I'm not sure, just hate it they had one.

What about the end of the game false start on Indy on the 4th down play ... was that the proper call?

I guarentee that call will be backed up by the league. I know they have been talking about that one.

That's a judgement call I could not argue with (even as a Colts fan). This is just semantics but it wasn't "false start" but "simulating a snap". He was just shifting but his movement was very similar to what he would do at the snap. He should have been more fluid. I think they could have have let it go but I don't have any issues with the call.

Overall...what a crazy game from an officiating standpoint. I think they did fine overall other than the killer IW. I'm not sure who did it but it was a huge mistake. They owned up to it right away and enforced it correctly though. The change on the spot was correct as well. Polian was on the local news saying he would not call the league office because he didn't think he could behave himself.

4th down false start
 

I hate this play, I would like it to be called FS (or simulating the snap) every time, but it seems that in every other exact same situation in the NFL, NCAA, most NFHS, that it is not called False start. In Varsity Fed they better darn sure that tell us they have this play in their repertoire, a little heads up would be nice as well. I have seen it called both ways mostly in Fed, but NFL seems to never call it. Consistency is all I ask for. (anyway how can vander..., I mean Vinateri miss a 29 yd chip shot like that, I understand the rushed 42 yder a little bit) Anyway the ref from Indy is done venting (they shouldn't have won anyway with the way they played, tape session will not be pretty, or the trainer's room).

(Previous post deleted)

Upon further review...I realize my confusion, return got to the 7, it did not start at the 7.

The ball was intercepted in the endzone. That's where the IW occured. Therefore, a touchback and the ball on the 20.

The ball was tipped at about the 2 or 3 and then tipped about 5 more times between there and where it was intercepted about 4 yards deep in the end zone. The BJ had it as an interception and had his bag down at the spot. The left-side deep wing, S or F, decided it had to have hit the ground and blew it dead just before the intercepting player ran it out of the end zone.

As for the simulating the snap play, I agree with Madden that no player shifted that couldn't shift legally. The problem with Madden's complaint is that he never addressed the fact that just because it is legal to shift, the shift must also be legally done. Indy had three eligibles on the right end of the line. The TE shifted by standing up and back from a three-point stance to a two-point while a back just outside of him shifted sideways and another back outside of both of them shifted forward to be on the line. The group shifting together appeared to all be moving in a direction typical of the ball having been snapped. It did not fool San Diego. But since it was so abrupt, U threw the flag.

WARREN, I agree with you on the FS call.

As for the IW, wow, what a mistake. From the location of the interception, it must have been right in front of the BJ. Any of the deep wings would have been way out of line in making a call on that.

Why does anyone bag an interception, at any level?

The only thing worse than the IW was giving the wrong signal for it (gave the illegal substitution signal).

I agree with the bean bag for the spot on the interception.

I agree with all the comments regarding the false start call. Carl Madsen (U) threw the flag and had it the whole way. The player who 'shifted' was a little to exaggerated with his upper body movements for this not to be called.

Forksref--I see NCAA D1 and NFL officials toss bean bags on interceptions. It makes it tough to tell my B that there is no reason to toss his bean bag on an INT when he is always seeing those guys do it. Anybody know why they do so?

The simulating the start of the play was interesting. Coach Dungy was quoted last week as saying "that they had discussed the play previously with the league" and that all agreed it was legal. That was in a reported Q&A discussion where the Patriot's were complaining (in last week's game), that a key offside call on a 3rd down play where Indy had just "drawn them offside" using the exact same play, was a "completely legal" play.

Interesting how it went from being "completely legal" to illegal in just one week.

S or F had the IW. The ball bounced around people's legs and bodies while they were horizontal. Yes, it was a mistake, and understandable, but not so much at the NFL level.

CANADIAN MECHANIC:

The point of interception is a possible (albeit small) point of penalty application.

on the topic of bean bagging the spot of interception - in college and pros this is a potential penalty enforcement spot. In high school, it is not - so there is no need to bag it.

Not rue for college. This is not an enforcement spot

Not my game, so I have a question.

I'm not so sure that one of the wings whistled because he thought he saw the ball hit the ground.

When the BJ threw the bag, he was also sort of moving out of the way of the play and his non-bag arm raised, possibly looking like the mechanic for incomplete pass. I was wondering if perhaps the official who tweeted on the play was responding to what he thought was the no catch mechanic rather than his actual observation of the event.

Does it happen that way in football? If you're an official that does not have the primary call, but you see your partners' mechanic, do you blow the whistle (e.g., to avoid injury or further playing). It might happen for example on a fumble/no fumble call -- might a sideline official who clearly sees his partner U signal that the ball was on the ground blow the whistle when the lineman starts rumbling down the field with the ball even if he didn't see when the ball came loose?

REPLY: You shouldn't. If the primary official has the call and uses some sort of mechanic to indicate he knows what's going on, leave the whistle to him. If he doesn't blow it, play continues. No reason to try to trump your partner on the whistle in this case.

Other topic...though bagging the spot of an interception has absolutely no rule-based purpose in either Fed or NCAA, I do recall hearing that there is a possibility of that spot being significant in the NFL. I'll research and report back.

He did not say the IW was acceptable. He is saying that it is very likely the whistle allowed San Diego players to stop and not properly pursue the play. So it is possible that IND would have never had such a long return as was first suspected.

All I know is the BJ was all over the play and clearly had a catch. I do not think he was the one that blew the whistle. I am not sure why anyone else would have done that.

Peace

REPLY: I agree with JRutledge that it certainly was not the BJ (Steratore) that blew the whistle. He was right on the call in perfect position.

I was at the game. On the IW, it had to have been the SJ (Barry Anderson) because the play was to that side of the field (same side I'm on). You definitely heard the whistle, and someone must have started to (or appeared from the press box high on the opposite side) give an incomplete pass signal, because the PA announcer said, as the ball was being advanced out of the End Zone, "Pass is incomplete." Those on San Diego still playing after the whistle basically stopped at that point. The BJ then started looking at the SJ and FJ and they all stopped.

The play certainly qualifies as one of the most bizarre I've ever seen.

The BJ certainly didn't have the whistle. If he did, that would make this play even more strange considering he bagged it and a SD player didn't touch the Indy player. But like I said, I'm 99.999879% sure it wasn't the BJ with the whistle.

I would assume the announcer probably saw the SJ giving the incomplete pass signal.

None at all.

To me, that's situational officiating right there, too. It seemed to me that the Colts only lined up in a normal formation on that play specifically to try and draw the Chargers off. In that case, you've got to be extra, extra careful that you're not the team that flinches first. And when you put a guy in motion (or shifting, whatever he was doing) and then a tight end JERKS up as you would at the snap, well, I'm sorry, I'm nailing that one right there. ***** all you want.

The IW, I was listening on the radio and Dave Sims said that there hadn't been a whistle (initially) and I said to the person in the car with me "I thought I heard a whistle?" Turns out I had.

Of course it shouldn't happen. But it does. I felt so badly for the whole crew. Having blown an IW or two in my career (as I'm sure most of us have), no one in the stadium feels worse about it than we do.

Bill Polian is absolutely crazy as a sh!thouse mouse to begin with, and it pains me that this nutjob has a Super Bowl ring, but it is what it is.

Did he not call Peyton Manning's house last night because he couldn't contain himself about the six frigging interceptions the guy threw?

The call was correct, IMHO. And Polian hasn't stopped whining and *****ing even though his team won the frigging Super Bowl. Give it a rest.

So, the false start call was right ... or wrong?

Bagging the spot of an interception
 

REPLY: We all saw the BJ drop a bag when he ruled that Indy had intercepted the pass in the endzone. Though there is no rule-based reason to do that for either Fed or NCAA, there is a remote chance that this spot will be significant for enforcement in the NFL. Here is verbatim what an NFL friend related to me:

"Dropping bean bag (on interception): A Chop blocks, INT, bean bag, B fumbles,A gets it back. We can use the bean bag to enforce the CHB as it is considered "A's previous spot." Only time I have EVER seen that is on a test."

Review on spot...
 

What about the statement from the ref on the 3rd down play in which the colts were given a first down after measurement. He stated "the ball will be placed just shy of the 6 yard line". What is "just shy"? 1 inch, 2 inches, etc? I did not agree with this review.

This is the kind of lunacy the instant reply review process has brought us. The reviewers can "see" that the runner was stopped short of the 6 yard line but are unable to precisely tell from that view how short he was. I do not understand how anyone can think the camera, unless it is looking straight down a line (i.e. goal line, line to gain, etc) can give you a precise view. There is way too much potential for perspective distortion, especially when using telephoto lenses.

The False start may have not been a false start, but I imagine 2/3 of the crews in the country at every level talked about last week's LSU false start and said duh and here the U talked himself into a bad call.

My question is this, in what mechanic is the U observing the shifts of the end and backs? Doesn't he have a snap, a center and a couple of guards to be watching.

In the NFL shifts are very popular, there was nothing illegal about this shift that was any different than 2/3 of the other shifts on Sunday. The argument someone made earlier about them all shifting the same direction makes the swinging gate shift illegal. I will come out and say bad call.

Play: The LTG is obvious - such as the inside of the 5 yard stripe. The covering official rules that FP was past the LTG. Upon replay, it is clear that the progress was short of the LTG (because it was short of the 5 yard stripe) but it is not known how much short of the stripe progress was.

Ruling: A 1D will not be awarded. It will be the next down, with the best estimate as determine by the Referee.

When the R voices this, should be not use "just shy of the 5 yard stripe"?

Because this can be an enforcement spot under NFL rules. The reason we don't bag it under NF or NCAA rules is that we won't use this as an enforcemetn spot for anything.

I think the wing official had the call not the U (could be wrong).

The difference is his movement was jerky similar to the action at a snap rather than fluid like is usually done on a shift. There's a fine line but I think he got the call right after watching the replay.

Mike Pereira explains it here:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8043262f

Thanks for the video post. I didn't know the NFL had these available to watch other than on the NFL network. This is great if you miss a show.

I find a couple of things interesting about his explanation of the official with the IW.

Pereira says that the official needs to learn to take his whistle out of this mouth. You'd think an experienced official (and you think one would have to be quite experienced to make it to the NFL) would already do that. After my first IW I never put my whistle back in my mouth and left it hanging. Many others switch to finger whistles just to prevent this. And I don't think there is any way an NFL official made it all the way through the ranks without an IW.

He also said that the official, being his first year out of NCAA, got excited about the play and confused the NCAA with the NFL rule (i.e. down by contact). This explanation seemed to try and mitigate the IW. I think it much more realisitic that the official thought the pass incomplete, and this explanation by Pereira saves face. I'm probably reading into it too much, but that's my gut feeling.

I saw that too, but I just assumed that the NFL had a different signal for Inadvertent Whistle.

If it was a first year offcial, it was the side judge who whistled. The FJ is from my hometown and has been working NFL for at least 4-5 years (and possibly longer).

We all know how horrible we feel when it happens to one of us. I can only imagine how he feels.

After hearing Pereira explaining what happened I think he's telling the truth
As I can hear, there is no doubt on the whistling. It's not like he blew it wrong once and then blew it again to confirm the IW.
Sounded to me like he blew the whistle sure of what he was doing but, unfortunately, he was wrong.
He go mixed up with the different rules

Yeah, the S is in the League in his first season from CUSA.

So you must be from Illinois.

I got to do some work with Doug in a camp over the summer. He's a great guy and I learned a hell of a lot from him and from Tony.

The whole crew was there and the thing that I found really interesting was just the whole air of confidence that every one of them exuded.

What I haven´t seen here is this:
Referee announced that ruling on the field was interception and then IW. However, that whistle wasn´t inadventent, it happened because of bad judgement and it was an incomplete pass call.
Yeah, those guys made it clever and they "internally ruled it over" to IW, but wasn´t it so, that the call was incomplete pass and to change in, there should be a challenge (if that play is challengeable)?
Because next time, on officials make a mistake for example on sideline catch and rules oob catch, there could be also an "IW" on a catch.

Isn't it a Fed mechanic to beanbag the spot on an IW? What about the NFL?

REPLY: If you listen to Pereira's description and if you watch/here the video, you see that the call was not incomplete pass, but rather that the Colts defender was down (ball dead) when he hit the ground after completing the interception. If you watch the video, the S who whistled is coming into the endzone, but he is not signalling incomplete.

Human.

Beings.

Make.

Mistakes.

Definitely bean bag it.

I'm not suggesting that even experience officials don't make mistakes. Experienced officials have had IW's before I'm sure. That isn't what I was driving at.

And I'm also not suggesting the official in question is a poor official. In fact, I'm quite certain he is an excellent official, given that he as progressed to the NFL level.

The point of my post was that I think Pereira wasn't giving a completely honest report. Pereira said "you'll see him officiating now without the whistle in his mouth." He even went into a detail explanation about going through the motion of grabbing the whistle.

How many experienced officials officiate with the whistle in their mouths? In my experience--none. And I don't think the guy here is any different. THAT was my point.

I like Mike Pereira, but not EVERYTHING he says makes complete sense.

Then again, he's not talking to us - he's talking to fanboys. We know more than the average watcher of NFL Total Access does about officiating mechanics.

REPLY: Jerry Markbreit did it for his entire career. He wouldn't even spit the darn thing out when listening to a crewmate report a foul. The only time the whistle left his mouth was when he was talking.

I was talking about this with an official who works BB as well and he said it is not a problem for him cuz he is used to the whistle being in his mouth for BB. I still think it is good to keep it out of the mouth to have another split second before you can blow it, but it depends on the individual.

I let that thing drop out of my mouth as soon as the ball is snapped. And definitely keep it away from your mouth on kicks, lest ye see a penalty and have your mind snap when you throw the flag and you blow the whistle, too.

Basketball refs blow the whistle when they see the foul. When you do both sports, you have to train yourself not to do that in football.